BG K 44 formula is still the same?
11-23-2005, 04:07 PM
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BG K 44 formula is still the same?
For about one year the absence of PEA on the MSDS of BG 44K, has been noticed by several people.
Here is statement from a guy who works for BG 44K:
<i>Hello everyone. I just couldn't resist adding my 2 cents worth to your BG 44K discussion, as I see you have alot of theories and opinions on what BG44K is, and what it isn't. Since I am the Technical Service Manager for BG Products, Inc. I thought I would respond to you all this one time to set the record straight and inform you on what exactly you are seeing on the label contents of 44K.
First, I want to let you know that the contents on any product label do not necessarily reflect the proprietary formula for a product. Label contents are by and large grouped in general chemical categories so that proper handling and transportation issues can be determined. This information is only relevent to the transportation or service professional, and is not a clue to the average guy on what makes up a products' effectiveness. It is obvious that many of you here are not truly familiar with the intended function of label information or MDSD's. (Material Safety Data Sheets) If you were, then you'd know that this information has very little to do with proprietary formulations or active ingredients. Most of the time what you are reading on the label of a can or bottle is the major diluent (petroleum distillates, kerosene, mineral spirits, ect.) used to suspend the active ingredients. The active ingredients, in fact, may not be a regulated compound per se, and hence they may not be required to list. Now obviously some chemical companies do not necessarily provide ample of accurate information on their labels, nor care about regulatory compliance issues, as this area of enforcement is rarely monitored for accuracy. See this link for an example of a recent regulatory issue involving such a company:
http://www.caprep.com/0105003.htm
However, BG Products is and has always been concerned with providing all lawful and relative information on their product labels and MSDS's, and we will continue to do so. With regard to BG 44K, I must admit that in the past we listed polyether amine as a major component of BG 44K, but this was actually not required by law. (This sure made the product sound powerful though...didn't it!) But, as we moved into the future, we sought to improve our consistency and compliance to relevent content information, and by doing so we revised a number of our product labels. During this revision period, we discovered it was unnecessary to list our unique, patented polyether amine compound (among other chemicals) as it was not regulated nor applicable to disclose. Since we are not interested in providing our competition with formulation secrets, we opted to cease label information that reflected any of the non-regulated but active chemistries to which you all frequently refer. Instead, we are now more consistent and uniform in providing the necessary label and MSDS information for regulatory purposes, even though this does not translate into good marketing (like you guys like to see).
Anyway in conclusion we still have the strongest and most effective fuel cleaner on the market today with BG 44K, and have not lessened or "cheapened" the performance of it. If you ever care to refer to our literature about it's performance, you will see that is well documented and extensive. In contrast to other companies who market products in this category, we are probably the only company you will find that has actual test data and fleet or vehicle information to back up it's proven claims. Anything you find pictured or stated in our literature would be actually grounded in real objective test data. For instance, we list combustion chamber cleaning, catalytic converter restoration, and synergistic valve deposit cleaning as some of the hallmarks to BG 44K use. All of these attributes have been proven in controlled tests performed by independent (and internationally recognized) research organizations. However, this same standard for quality can not often times be said of other products that make claims similar to ours. In short, BG enjoys the stellar reputation that it has because it has always been a performance-based company, and not one concerned with manufacturing marginal products or promoting unclaimed hype. Anyway I will conclude by saying that you are each entitled to your opinions and choices in this market of performance products, and I encourage you to continue to do so. Finally let me just add that, sometimes (well meaning though you may be), a little information in the hands of someone who doesn't fully know how to use it, is sometimes a more dangerous thing that not knowing anything at all. I trust that we all understand how important it is to remember what radio talk show host Paul Harvey always says.."and now....for the REST of the story!".
For those of you that are currently using our products and services, I want to thank you for your ongoing support, and for those of you who don't...well, I wish you the best with what you choose to use. That's all I have to say. Thank you for allowing me the chance to correct the misinformation stated here in the past about our products. You all are a faithful bunch of interested consumers and I greatly enjoy the efforts you've taken in doing the best that you can to maintain your vehicles. I wish you all many safe miles of driving ahead. Sincerely, Michael D. Belluomo, BG Products, Inc., Technical Service Manager, Wichita, KS.</i>
Here is statement from a guy who works for BG 44K:
<i>Hello everyone. I just couldn't resist adding my 2 cents worth to your BG 44K discussion, as I see you have alot of theories and opinions on what BG44K is, and what it isn't. Since I am the Technical Service Manager for BG Products, Inc. I thought I would respond to you all this one time to set the record straight and inform you on what exactly you are seeing on the label contents of 44K.
First, I want to let you know that the contents on any product label do not necessarily reflect the proprietary formula for a product. Label contents are by and large grouped in general chemical categories so that proper handling and transportation issues can be determined. This information is only relevent to the transportation or service professional, and is not a clue to the average guy on what makes up a products' effectiveness. It is obvious that many of you here are not truly familiar with the intended function of label information or MDSD's. (Material Safety Data Sheets) If you were, then you'd know that this information has very little to do with proprietary formulations or active ingredients. Most of the time what you are reading on the label of a can or bottle is the major diluent (petroleum distillates, kerosene, mineral spirits, ect.) used to suspend the active ingredients. The active ingredients, in fact, may not be a regulated compound per se, and hence they may not be required to list. Now obviously some chemical companies do not necessarily provide ample of accurate information on their labels, nor care about regulatory compliance issues, as this area of enforcement is rarely monitored for accuracy. See this link for an example of a recent regulatory issue involving such a company:
http://www.caprep.com/0105003.htm
However, BG Products is and has always been concerned with providing all lawful and relative information on their product labels and MSDS's, and we will continue to do so. With regard to BG 44K, I must admit that in the past we listed polyether amine as a major component of BG 44K, but this was actually not required by law. (This sure made the product sound powerful though...didn't it!) But, as we moved into the future, we sought to improve our consistency and compliance to relevent content information, and by doing so we revised a number of our product labels. During this revision period, we discovered it was unnecessary to list our unique, patented polyether amine compound (among other chemicals) as it was not regulated nor applicable to disclose. Since we are not interested in providing our competition with formulation secrets, we opted to cease label information that reflected any of the non-regulated but active chemistries to which you all frequently refer. Instead, we are now more consistent and uniform in providing the necessary label and MSDS information for regulatory purposes, even though this does not translate into good marketing (like you guys like to see).
Anyway in conclusion we still have the strongest and most effective fuel cleaner on the market today with BG 44K, and have not lessened or "cheapened" the performance of it. If you ever care to refer to our literature about it's performance, you will see that is well documented and extensive. In contrast to other companies who market products in this category, we are probably the only company you will find that has actual test data and fleet or vehicle information to back up it's proven claims. Anything you find pictured or stated in our literature would be actually grounded in real objective test data. For instance, we list combustion chamber cleaning, catalytic converter restoration, and synergistic valve deposit cleaning as some of the hallmarks to BG 44K use. All of these attributes have been proven in controlled tests performed by independent (and internationally recognized) research organizations. However, this same standard for quality can not often times be said of other products that make claims similar to ours. In short, BG enjoys the stellar reputation that it has because it has always been a performance-based company, and not one concerned with manufacturing marginal products or promoting unclaimed hype. Anyway I will conclude by saying that you are each entitled to your opinions and choices in this market of performance products, and I encourage you to continue to do so. Finally let me just add that, sometimes (well meaning though you may be), a little information in the hands of someone who doesn't fully know how to use it, is sometimes a more dangerous thing that not knowing anything at all. I trust that we all understand how important it is to remember what radio talk show host Paul Harvey always says.."and now....for the REST of the story!".
For those of you that are currently using our products and services, I want to thank you for your ongoing support, and for those of you who don't...well, I wish you the best with what you choose to use. That's all I have to say. Thank you for allowing me the chance to correct the misinformation stated here in the past about our products. You all are a faithful bunch of interested consumers and I greatly enjoy the efforts you've taken in doing the best that you can to maintain your vehicles. I wish you all many safe miles of driving ahead. Sincerely, Michael D. Belluomo, BG Products, Inc., Technical Service Manager, Wichita, KS.</i>
11-24-2005, 05:15 PM
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I can't stand that idiom.
It's a pet peeve, or rather a bugbear of mine. Whenever some says "Take it with a grain of salt" I visualize a deer at a salt lick. :-P
PS: Boobies...
PS: Boobies...
11-25-2005, 10:02 PM
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I feel like such an idiot now.
You know how we uneducated bumkins with only 8 years of Latin as part of a humanistic education plus four years university are left out totally clueless in the world. We dunno nuthin' -- especially over-used common idiomatic expressions's meaning eludes us while also confusing us profusely. Pardon me for being a know-it-all myself. If you think I'm being rude now, then you may want to find out the meaning of "Auf eine groben Klotz geh?rt* ein grober Keil." Should be child's play! :-P
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11-25-2005, 10:12 PM
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I'd rather have the ***** freeze off my brass monkey than use that expression.
Does anybody feel the need, the urge even, to lecture us on the meaning of that? ;-)
11-26-2005, 08:05 AM
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Mori, I think we all like and respect you because you are a "know it all"!
No rudeness intended--I admit to having the characteristics of a rough block.
Without your sharing your wealth of information, what would the rest of us mere mortals understand of lubricants on this forum?
I have eight+ years of university education and a doctoral degree, but I still feel like an uneducated bumkin due to the mind-boggling rate of knowledge discovery and expansion since the introduction of computerized information technologies. As such, the need for educating and re-educating ourselves has become a never ending process, because we cannot rely on the accuracy of what we know.
No one needs to feel offended when someone recites things already known, because the process of re-reading and re-learning what we think we know in the context of any particular application of knowledge only makes our control of that knowledge better (at least until digital memory implants become available). ;-)
P.S. On your advice, I finally ordered some LC20 yesterday!
Without your sharing your wealth of information, what would the rest of us mere mortals understand of lubricants on this forum?
I have eight+ years of university education and a doctoral degree, but I still feel like an uneducated bumkin due to the mind-boggling rate of knowledge discovery and expansion since the introduction of computerized information technologies. As such, the need for educating and re-educating ourselves has become a never ending process, because we cannot rely on the accuracy of what we know.
No one needs to feel offended when someone recites things already known, because the process of re-reading and re-learning what we think we know in the context of any particular application of knowledge only makes our control of that knowledge better (at least until digital memory implants become available). ;-)
P.S. On your advice, I finally ordered some LC20 yesterday!