moribundman

Despite replacing one leaky valve cover gasket the engine is still leaking oil and everything is pointing at either the headgaskets and/or the valley pan. Since a TB change is due in couple months anyway, I think I should prepare myself for a few days of "fun"! I'd rather do it all at once.

My questions is:
If I take the heads off, how on Earth am I going to be able to put them on right without messing up timing?

JWG

as I recall it you have no indications of head gasket leaks, because you see no oil in your coolant. If you have a head gasket problem you will 99% certainly see oil in the coolant. If oil escapes outside the gasket, it will also escape to the closer, lower pressure cooling system within the gasket.

Additionally, if you have a very rare head gasket problem that does not result in the mixing of fluids, you will at least eliminate a far more likely and easily fixed valley pan gasket failure before you set yourself up to attempt a far more time consuming, costly, and less likely head gasket failure.

I would give myself (alone) four hours for a valley pan gasket, but I would bring it to my mechanic (probably for a couple of days) for head gaskets.

My $0.02, but do ask around.

Bryans12v

Without rotating the cams or crankshaft, right?

Ive never done a headgasket job but I wouldnt think that pulling the heads off would compromise a correct timing.

Bryans12v

Did you do that TB port.polish yourself?

Dremel?

moribundman

Just kidding.

Seriously, I just want to be prepared in case one or both head gaskets are leaking. Since I'll have the bumper and lock carrier off already to replace the TB, waterpump, etc, it will be a little late to bring the car to the shop, if it turns out that a head gasket is in fact leaking. Of course, I'm hoping it's just the valley pan gasket, but what if...? That's why I'm scaring you all with the prospect of me replacing the head gaskets!

So the camshaft won't turn the slightest bit by itself when the head comes off?

Bryans12v

I wouldnt do it anyway even if I was sure. ;o)

moribundman

If it has to be done, then I'll do it.

AudiMick

If the head gasket is leaking wouldn't a compression test show it.

JWG

If you felt desperate to get rid of carpel tunnel syndrome would you cut off your hand?

Let things take their natural, logical progression and give yourself time to figure things out.

You will not know whether the head gasket is leaking until you trouble shoot the valley pan gasket and then get the engine and underside of the car steam cleaned.

Again, the only procedure (I can think of) that will give you a moderately precise visual clue as to whether there exists a head gasket leak (as you do not see oil in the coolant) is the following:
1. Wash out the valley pan area with pressurized hot water (directly from your water heater on max) or pressurized steam (from a pro steam cleaner) so you can feel sure it's perfectly clean for this test.
2. Drive the car around for a hour or two (i.e., get it hot and run it hard to build up all of the fluid temps and pressures).
3. Using a very focused & bright pen-light-sized Mag-light, look at each head gasket lip under the intake manifold (there are three possible angles of view on each side--front, middle slot, and back).

I bet you wil not see oil seeping from under the gasket, given your lack of oil in the coolant--head gasket problems are major problems with major symptoms.

Remember the head gasket is all metal to contain the extreme temperatures and pressures in the combustion chamber; the valley pan gasket is a cheap "sandwich"-style gasket covering the oil retention valves that help keep oil in the heads while the engine is warming up.

If you only have an oil leak, it's likely coming from the valley pan gasket! I would hate to see you risk a head gasket change and mess up the timing on an interference engine, unless you want to justify the purchase of big valve heads.

moribundman

I'll remove the intake manifold and replace the valley pan first. You can rest assured I won't rip the heads off due to a suspicion!

However, if the car will still leak oil by the time I do the TB, it will be a little late to bring the car to the shop to have the head gaskets replaced, should one or both be leaking.

How much more time should I give it? I've driven the car for 124k miles, for 60k miles it's been leaking oil (and it's getting bad now), and neither the dealer nor the independent guy could come up with something else than "valve covers gaskets and head geaskets"! Care to guess how often I've had the valve cover gaskets replaced?

I moved earlier this year, so now I have the space to do stuff myself, and I'm just way fed up with with my mechanic and the dealer.

PS: Both my Scircocco's had leaky head gaskets, and neither one got oil in the coolant...