Initial 034 12v chipsets, details inside:
05-13-2008, 01:17 PM
#1
Former Vendor
Thread Starter
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Fremont, CA
Posts: 1,352
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Initial 034 12v chipsets, details inside:
Ok, so with some remapped timing and fueling the 12v does respond with some power gains. Here's some _actual_ real world same-day before and after results.
All of the MMS ECU's have some level of adaption abilities, which can make dyno results difficult to measure. You need to do a _lot_ of pulls until the ECU is content and settled in on itself.
For example a stock MMS200 ECU if we were to just plug it in and do a single pull, and use that as our 'stock ECU baseline' we'd be ~15WHP down from where it ended up after the timing adaption takes place. So to give the stock setup the best fighting chance for us to see if we could top it we dyno'ed the car until power gains leveled off and the adaption was optimized based on the stock mapping.
Then we set out to tweak/poke/prod the maps to see what was left in there. Here is what we came up with that will cover most of the mods for guys here.
First up a bone stock configuration:
<img src="http://www.034motorsport.com/images/034_12v_stage1.png">
There's not a ton on the plate left when breathing through the stock AAH maf, but there is a noticable bump in power, fattening up the mid-range.
Then once that bottle-neck is greatly reduced and a de-shrouded big-bore maf is in the mix and the full remap is done (and trust me it needs a full re-map!) there's definitely more power on tap everywhere in the power-band:
<img src="http://www.034motorsport.com/images/034_12V_1PLUS.png">
Using this MAF configuration gets you some headroom with the chipset for further intake exhaust mods and still be properly metering the air and compensating for the additional flow levels.
All of the MMS ECU's have some level of adaption abilities, which can make dyno results difficult to measure. You need to do a _lot_ of pulls until the ECU is content and settled in on itself.
For example a stock MMS200 ECU if we were to just plug it in and do a single pull, and use that as our 'stock ECU baseline' we'd be ~15WHP down from where it ended up after the timing adaption takes place. So to give the stock setup the best fighting chance for us to see if we could top it we dyno'ed the car until power gains leveled off and the adaption was optimized based on the stock mapping.
Then we set out to tweak/poke/prod the maps to see what was left in there. Here is what we came up with that will cover most of the mods for guys here.
First up a bone stock configuration:
<img src="http://www.034motorsport.com/images/034_12v_stage1.png">
There's not a ton on the plate left when breathing through the stock AAH maf, but there is a noticable bump in power, fattening up the mid-range.
Then once that bottle-neck is greatly reduced and a de-shrouded big-bore maf is in the mix and the full remap is done (and trust me it needs a full re-map!) there's definitely more power on tap everywhere in the power-band:
<img src="http://www.034motorsport.com/images/034_12V_1PLUS.png">
Using this MAF configuration gets you some headroom with the chipset for further intake exhaust mods and still be properly metering the air and compensating for the additional flow levels.
05-13-2008, 01:36 PM
#3
Former Vendor
Thread Starter
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Fremont, CA
Posts: 1,352
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
A side note on the MMS311 'adaptation tuning'
After our chip tuning setup was done we moved onto some comparative baselines on a stock MMS311 ECU and letting it do the adaption with lots of time on the dyno to see where things came out, since this is one of the more common practices, though we've yet to see any dyno pulls, or AFR information, just seat of the pants reports. The results: light to moderate loads were 'ok' since the ECU's closed loop abilities were able to keep things reigned in, however as soon as you mash the gas it's a different story. This is when the ECU switches to open loop and your left to the Hitachi engineers and what they mapped the car for. Which needless to say was consistently lean, non-linear, and really not that safe of a tune, I'll see if I can dig up that dyno plot in a bit.
So just as a word of caution for those relying on the adaption for tuning, do keep an eye on your AFR's with a proper wideband gauge.
So just as a word of caution for those relying on the adaption for tuning, do keep an eye on your AFR's with a proper wideband gauge.
05-13-2008, 01:38 PM
#4
Ya want a couple MMS311 pulls with all the induction mods to compare?
I have 3 pulls that are so close to each that when laid over each other on top of a light source appear to be identical pulls. Say the word and I'm happy to post em up. All have a fretfully identical and almost perfectly "flat-line" wideband F/A graph as well.
05-13-2008, 01:42 PM
#5
Former Vendor
Thread Starter
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Fremont, CA
Posts: 1,352
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Sure
It broils down to time, time, and time mostly.
You can clearly see the changes the ECU is making on the dyno, each consecutive pull after the ECU has recently been plugged in nets a little more power each time. Time is spent working the motor through it's load cells by using the dyno to hold the motor at specific RPM's.
Once the ECU has worked out it's new timing curve (a specified deviation based on the stock mapping) then that value is stored and used until the ECU is unplugged or the knock sensors start indicating that the timing is in need of adjustment.
You can clearly see the changes the ECU is making on the dyno, each consecutive pull after the ECU has recently been plugged in nets a little more power each time. Time is spent working the motor through it's load cells by using the dyno to hold the motor at specific RPM's.
Once the ECU has worked out it's new timing curve (a specified deviation based on the stock mapping) then that value is stored and used until the ECU is unplugged or the knock sensors start indicating that the timing is in need of adjustment.
05-13-2008, 01:46 PM
#6
Former Vendor
Thread Starter
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Fremont, CA
Posts: 1,352
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
You could, it's not really relevant to this thread, however.
It's more a matter of not knowing if/when your car is running properly, and relying on adaption trims from a narrow band O2 sensor to be 'ok' for a radically changed intake system.
I was simply stating that relying on a specified drive time for a car to 'tune' itself is not a reliable solution, and each car must be monitored closely if running a completely stock ECU in a far from stock setup.
I was simply stating that relying on a specified drive time for a car to 'tune' itself is not a reliable solution, and each car must be monitored closely if running a completely stock ECU in a far from stock setup.
05-13-2008, 01:56 PM
#7
I guess I misunderstood. I was assuming that your statement of...
"though we've yet to see any dyno pulls, or AFR information, just seat of the pants reports" as an "interest" in seeing one, two or three dyno pulls with AFR information. Sorry!