Mance recovery sleeve group buy (6)
02-12-2007, 12:47 PM
#11
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I doubt you have a "replica"...
Unless of course you have a flowbench and CNC machine?
I also have my own temporary rendition of a recovery sleeve, and it "works great". However, it doesn't flow at nearly the rate Mance's parts do, as it's just made from an off the shelf joiner and a couple of hose barbs.
Even if these were selling for cheap two and a half years ago, at that point they were in "full production". Now, Mance is doing us a favor by offering the group buy, for something he doesn't produce anymore. I feel it's a fair price for all the work thats gone into this part over the years. For me, it's worth it. To each his own I suppose.
I also have my own temporary rendition of a recovery sleeve, and it "works great". However, it doesn't flow at nearly the rate Mance's parts do, as it's just made from an off the shelf joiner and a couple of hose barbs.
Even if these were selling for cheap two and a half years ago, at that point they were in "full production". Now, Mance is doing us a favor by offering the group buy, for something he doesn't produce anymore. I feel it's a fair price for all the work thats gone into this part over the years. For me, it's worth it. To each his own I suppose.
02-12-2007, 12:53 PM
#12
I wasn't even gonna answer him. First, because he's lying about cost of my Recovery sleeves..
now or at ANY time in the past. They were $110 originally and only "if" purchased with an S3 hose kit. Alone they were the same price as the group buy today if not "grouped" with something else. They "may" have gone to $90 at one time if purchased with a MAF, throttle body and hose kit.
I've seen his "almost exact replica" recovery sleeve. Uglier than a bucket of worms! Sucks flow-wise (pun intended)but he got EXACTLY what he paid for! And it never breaks my heart when people want "that" kind of quality... but I do vomit in my mouth a little when I see it. Makes a FAR greater statement about them, their taste in cars than it ever could about me/mine.
As usual the 12V Development forum is chock full of people willing to speak volumes about what they know not.
But like primates, they're fun to watch!
I'll show ya mine if he'll show ya his. Its funny!
I've seen his "almost exact replica" recovery sleeve. Uglier than a bucket of worms! Sucks flow-wise (pun intended)but he got EXACTLY what he paid for! And it never breaks my heart when people want "that" kind of quality... but I do vomit in my mouth a little when I see it. Makes a FAR greater statement about them, their taste in cars than it ever could about me/mine.
As usual the 12V Development forum is chock full of people willing to speak volumes about what they know not.
But like primates, they're fun to watch!
I'll show ya mine if he'll show ya his. Its funny!
02-12-2007, 01:12 PM
#13
you're either lying or mistaken on pricing 2.5 years ago but I'll show ya mine if you'll show us...
<center><img src="http://pictureposter.audiworld.com/711/s3sleeve.jpg"></center><p>
your "almost exact replica" and please dont just show us how pretty yours is externally (joke) show us its internals so we can all see it's meticulously finished, honed and obstacle-free flow path.
That should just about "do it" for your claims methinks.
your "almost exact replica" and please dont just show us how pretty yours is externally (joke) show us its internals so we can all see it's meticulously finished, honed and obstacle-free flow path.
That should just about "do it" for your claims methinks.
02-12-2007, 02:02 PM
#15
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yo can you shoot me a email with exactly....
which 90 degree silicone Pisces you bought from turbo hoses?
The B390?? (SKU) 80 bucks each?? there has to be a cheaper place, that's almost 200 bones on 2 90 degree bends
thanks man
The B390?? (SKU) 80 bucks each?? there has to be a cheaper place, that's almost 200 bones on 2 90 degree bends
thanks man
02-12-2007, 03:15 PM
#16
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Mance, I thought you refused to post on this forum anymore?
I'M NOT LYING. Here is a screen shot of the Paypal payment over 3 years ago. I may have been a little off as far as date and price but you get the idea. Also, this is the only product I've purchased from him. I have not purchased anything else in the past. Mance, if there is debate on this, check your paypal records. My paypal address is the same as my address on AW...
<img src="http://pictureposter.audiworld.com/43547/recovery_sleeve.jpg">
At no time did I say his recovery sleeve was not a fine piece of engineering. I just feel that it is not worth $150. That's fine, I have the right to my opinion. You all have the right to spend YOUR money as you see fit as well.
As far as I'm concerned, Mance is the leader in throttle body, MAF and IM modifications arena. I would say these modifications do improve performance. At the end of the day however, you still have a lowly 12v. For the price, you may as well save the money and put it towards a different car with a better engine platform. The 12v is not a bad engine by any means. It will give you many miles of low hp output. Having said that though, it definitely is not Audi's finest.
My use of "replica" was probably not accurate. At the same time it was not intentional. What I meant to say is that it accomplishes the same task as his recovery sleeve. My recovery sleeve is made out of 3" ID steel tubing. I will admit, it weighs a few "ounces" more than Mances aluminum sleeve. In a 3500lb car does this matter? Also, it uses two brass 5/8" barb fittings just as his does. Having OWNED both recovery sleeves and having them both in my HAND for my EYES to see, Mance's sleeve is more "beautiful". I can also say his does not look any different internal wise. They both have smooth internal surfaces. The only significant difference between the two is that my brass fittings were "brazed" into place by a welder/machinist while Mance elected to create some aluminum meat to thread some 5/8" barbs into place. Why would I go through the effort of beed blasting my MAF housing/adapter and using exspensive stainless hardware if I was going to settle for an ugly cobbled together sleeve?
"I've seen his "almost exact replica" recovery sleeve. Uglier than a bucket of worms! Sucks flow-wise but he got EXACTLY what he paid for! And it never breaks my heart when people want that kind of quality... but I do vomit in my mouth a little when I see it. Makes a FAR greater statement about them, their taste than it ever could about me/mine.
As usual the 12V Development forum is chock full of people willing to speak volumes about what they know not.
But like primates, they're fun to watch."
I don't understand how Mance can insult my recovery sleeve and make assertions' how it flows without even having mine in his hand or even seeing a picture of it internally? Anyone who knows me, knows I'm super **** retentive about doing things the "right way". I don't like ugly half-@ssed things in my car or anywhere else for that matter. Having said that, I think my recovery sleeve looks fine. I never claimed it won any awards for beauty. After all, this is a 1990 20v 90q I'm working on here, it's no Ferrari or show car at that. No car here is a show car. In fact, any car on this 12v forum is at least 10 years old. There's nothing wrong with that, IMO it just doesn't make sense to throw that kind of money at something that will not improve performance anymore than a comparable $30 part (I'm not selling these).
As you can see in this post, Mance makes assertions before he even knows what he is talking about. Additionally, you can also see pictures of my intake and recovery sleeve. Did you vomit in your mouth? I hope not.;-(
https://forums.audiworld.com/9080/msgs/374511.phtml
I don't know how many times people told him that this work around for the large bore maf was possible. It just didn't quite sink in...
I plan on installing the large bore MAF on my 20v 90 when I return home from school in the next 1-4 weeks. In that time frame I will post a picture of my recovery sleeve. Also, for those that care I will show a wiring diagram and pictures of my 4-wire to 3-wire MAF harness which will allow me to go from 4 to 3 wire MAF without hacking the stock wiring harness to fit the pot and resistor needed for the swap. This will be all "plug and play".
<img src="http://pictureposter.audiworld.com/43547/recovery_sleeve.jpg">
At no time did I say his recovery sleeve was not a fine piece of engineering. I just feel that it is not worth $150. That's fine, I have the right to my opinion. You all have the right to spend YOUR money as you see fit as well.
As far as I'm concerned, Mance is the leader in throttle body, MAF and IM modifications arena. I would say these modifications do improve performance. At the end of the day however, you still have a lowly 12v. For the price, you may as well save the money and put it towards a different car with a better engine platform. The 12v is not a bad engine by any means. It will give you many miles of low hp output. Having said that though, it definitely is not Audi's finest.
My use of "replica" was probably not accurate. At the same time it was not intentional. What I meant to say is that it accomplishes the same task as his recovery sleeve. My recovery sleeve is made out of 3" ID steel tubing. I will admit, it weighs a few "ounces" more than Mances aluminum sleeve. In a 3500lb car does this matter? Also, it uses two brass 5/8" barb fittings just as his does. Having OWNED both recovery sleeves and having them both in my HAND for my EYES to see, Mance's sleeve is more "beautiful". I can also say his does not look any different internal wise. They both have smooth internal surfaces. The only significant difference between the two is that my brass fittings were "brazed" into place by a welder/machinist while Mance elected to create some aluminum meat to thread some 5/8" barbs into place. Why would I go through the effort of beed blasting my MAF housing/adapter and using exspensive stainless hardware if I was going to settle for an ugly cobbled together sleeve?
"I've seen his "almost exact replica" recovery sleeve. Uglier than a bucket of worms! Sucks flow-wise but he got EXACTLY what he paid for! And it never breaks my heart when people want that kind of quality... but I do vomit in my mouth a little when I see it. Makes a FAR greater statement about them, their taste than it ever could about me/mine.
As usual the 12V Development forum is chock full of people willing to speak volumes about what they know not.
But like primates, they're fun to watch."
I don't understand how Mance can insult my recovery sleeve and make assertions' how it flows without even having mine in his hand or even seeing a picture of it internally? Anyone who knows me, knows I'm super **** retentive about doing things the "right way". I don't like ugly half-@ssed things in my car or anywhere else for that matter. Having said that, I think my recovery sleeve looks fine. I never claimed it won any awards for beauty. After all, this is a 1990 20v 90q I'm working on here, it's no Ferrari or show car at that. No car here is a show car. In fact, any car on this 12v forum is at least 10 years old. There's nothing wrong with that, IMO it just doesn't make sense to throw that kind of money at something that will not improve performance anymore than a comparable $30 part (I'm not selling these).
As you can see in this post, Mance makes assertions before he even knows what he is talking about. Additionally, you can also see pictures of my intake and recovery sleeve. Did you vomit in your mouth? I hope not.;-(
https://forums.audiworld.com/9080/msgs/374511.phtml
I don't know how many times people told him that this work around for the large bore maf was possible. It just didn't quite sink in...
I plan on installing the large bore MAF on my 20v 90 when I return home from school in the next 1-4 weeks. In that time frame I will post a picture of my recovery sleeve. Also, for those that care I will show a wiring diagram and pictures of my 4-wire to 3-wire MAF harness which will allow me to go from 4 to 3 wire MAF without hacking the stock wiring harness to fit the pot and resistor needed for the swap. This will be all "plug and play".
02-12-2007, 05:08 PM
#18
when being accused of "ripping people off" I'll make an exception...
You didnt quite get your paypal right. In fact it took you two efforts even back then to get it right as you can see from the cut/paste copy below.
Type To/From Name/Email Status Details Action Gross Fee Net Amount
Dec. 11, 2003 Payment From Brad XXXXXX Completed Details $9.80 USD -$0.58 USD $9.22 USD
Dec. 10, 2003 Payment From Brad XXXXXX Completed Details $80.15 USD -$2.62 USD $77.53 USD
Bottom line you paid $89.95 for your recovery sleeve in 2 separate payments (1 dated 12/10 and the other 12/11 of 2003). I dont know how, why or remember what the terms were for that price but still 50% more than your original post today says I was selling them for at the time.
All the other stuff in your post is either superfluous, unrelated or of no concern to me. When you say I'm "ripping people off" I'm going to respond.
But nice iron work! And by the way, my recovery hose breather line barbs are NOT 5/8" like you say they are when saying yours is like mine. Tho I'm flattered you might wish they were. There's a VERY specific reason they will NEVER be but then you need to figure that and a few other things out for yourself.
Type To/From Name/Email Status Details Action Gross Fee Net Amount
Dec. 11, 2003 Payment From Brad XXXXXX Completed Details $9.80 USD -$0.58 USD $9.22 USD
Dec. 10, 2003 Payment From Brad XXXXXX Completed Details $80.15 USD -$2.62 USD $77.53 USD
Bottom line you paid $89.95 for your recovery sleeve in 2 separate payments (1 dated 12/10 and the other 12/11 of 2003). I dont know how, why or remember what the terms were for that price but still 50% more than your original post today says I was selling them for at the time.
All the other stuff in your post is either superfluous, unrelated or of no concern to me. When you say I'm "ripping people off" I'm going to respond.
But nice iron work! And by the way, my recovery hose breather line barbs are NOT 5/8" like you say they are when saying yours is like mine. Tho I'm flattered you might wish they were. There's a VERY specific reason they will NEVER be but then you need to figure that and a few other things out for yourself.
02-12-2007, 06:08 PM
#19
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Nice try dodging the questions/comments!
You can't come up with why I obtained the sleeve without the purchase of something else?
Why not give these folks a better price on the sleave? I can't say for sure, but I'll bet that program you came up with for this is still the same? Hell, I guess it's a better price than what you were willing to charge 10 participating 20v buyers for a recovery sleeve nearly identical to the 12v one but without the egr barb fitting and the isv and block breather barb fittings at the 3 and 6 o'clock positions($225 a head/10 people).
Don't worry, I'll be sure to make erroneous uninformed assertions about all of your new products as they continue to come out.
They may sound like something similar to this.
"Uglier than a bucket of worms! Sucks flow-wise (pun intended)but he got EXACTLY what he paid for! And it never breaks my heart when people want "that" kind of quality... but I do vomit in my mouth a little when I see it. Makes a FAR greater statement about them, their taste in cars than it ever could about me/mine."
I'm sorry, my TATSTE IN CARS does not include a 12v V6 equiped '95 90q costing nearly $80,000-90,000. Heck, I wouldn't be the least bit suprised to find you have way more into it than that... and the engine still isn't installed and running after 3 1/2 years of work. I think 99.999% of the participants on here would agree as well.
Why not give these folks a better price on the sleave? I can't say for sure, but I'll bet that program you came up with for this is still the same? Hell, I guess it's a better price than what you were willing to charge 10 participating 20v buyers for a recovery sleeve nearly identical to the 12v one but without the egr barb fitting and the isv and block breather barb fittings at the 3 and 6 o'clock positions($225 a head/10 people).
Don't worry, I'll be sure to make erroneous uninformed assertions about all of your new products as they continue to come out.
They may sound like something similar to this.
"Uglier than a bucket of worms! Sucks flow-wise (pun intended)but he got EXACTLY what he paid for! And it never breaks my heart when people want "that" kind of quality... but I do vomit in my mouth a little when I see it. Makes a FAR greater statement about them, their taste in cars than it ever could about me/mine."
I'm sorry, my TATSTE IN CARS does not include a 12v V6 equiped '95 90q costing nearly $80,000-90,000. Heck, I wouldn't be the least bit suprised to find you have way more into it than that... and the engine still isn't installed and running after 3 1/2 years of work. I think 99.999% of the participants on here would agree as well.
02-12-2007, 06:17 PM
#20
pot calling kettle black. I see you did a great "dodge" as well in defending your $60 sleeve...
that never happened. Hey, dont fault me if I choose to make a silk purse over a sow's ear. But feel free to take up the slack. I'm happy to turn all 12V mods and any exhorbitant pricing over to your dollar store mentality. I don't "need" this so lets have all those people wanting a group buy get theirs from you. $30 a pop and "wonder-flow" is at-hand.
So, all you guys wanting to buy those from me I'll refrain from "ripping you off" on this one. There's a new kid in town. His name's 20VT90q and he'll be happy to take your $150 and give you a recovery sleeve and $120 in change.
See? Now wasn't that easy! A cottage industry is born!
You clever marketer you ;-)
I didnt get pro-active in trying to find buyers for recovery sleeves. They found me, I gave em a price. No skin off my nose if it's too steep for them but so far you seem to be the only person here that has an issue with it and you're not even a candidate for one. How 'bout a compromise, ie; I dont tell you what to charge for your handi-work and you don't tell me what I should charge unless I ask. Should be a great system doncha think? I'm not holding a gun to anyone's head.
So, all you guys wanting to buy those from me I'll refrain from "ripping you off" on this one. There's a new kid in town. His name's 20VT90q and he'll be happy to take your $150 and give you a recovery sleeve and $120 in change.
See? Now wasn't that easy! A cottage industry is born!
You clever marketer you ;-)
I didnt get pro-active in trying to find buyers for recovery sleeves. They found me, I gave em a price. No skin off my nose if it's too steep for them but so far you seem to be the only person here that has an issue with it and you're not even a candidate for one. How 'bout a compromise, ie; I dont tell you what to charge for your handi-work and you don't tell me what I should charge unless I ask. Should be a great system doncha think? I'm not holding a gun to anyone's head.