KMHPaladin

I know this has been addressed before, I found a lot by searching, but there didn't seem to be a lot of information specific to the 12v. Quite a few posts seemed to refer to by-products of turbo operation leading to oil pressure issues (mostly sludge buildup) so I was interested to know what some of the 12v experts in here thought.

Today coming back from Best Buy in a failed attempt to buy a DIN adapter and wiring harness for my forthcoming Panasonic HU, about a mile into the return drive, the oil pressure light went on and a tone sounded, then literally a few seconds later the light turned back off.

Because the light went back off so quickly, I drove the couple miles home and immediately popped the hood to check out the oil level. It was <i>very</i> low. Shamefully low. I bought the car over the summer and have been meaning to change the oil over my winter break, but hadn't looked at it. If I inserted and removed the dipstick, it came out dry; if I inserted and let it sit for a minute or two, it came out with about 2/3 of the plastic on the bottom covered. Like I said, shameful.

I immediately went out in another car and bought the two quarts of 10W30 oil the local Sunoco station had left. Both brought the level up to half on the dipstick immediately after insertion. I drove the car about 15 miles tonight afterward, carefully, and didn't experience any problems.

After some thought and one back post I read, I remembered that the on-ramp to the highway I took was about a 300 degree circle and pretty tight. One guy had mentioned his pressure light had come on after he'd taken repeated tight ramps in a parking garage quickly while trying to make a flight.

So, here's the bottom line for those who skip to the end. I'm wondering if the (shamefully!) low level of oil, coupled with a hard turn, could have created an oil pressure issue? So far it's been okay after adding a full two quarts of 10W30, and as I said, the indicator went on only for a few seconds after a tight on-ramp. The manual says to add oil if the oil level is low (uh, yeah!) and monitor to see if any further problems occur. I'll be continuing to keep an eye on it, but I'll be making a 230-mile drive in two weeks, so I'd love to hear opinions.

Thanks for reading.

moribundman

If the oil level is low enough, the pick-up snorkel may not be able to suck in a sufficient amount of oil to maintain the required oil pressure, hence the blinking oil pressure light and the buzzer. The buzzer comes on if such an event occurs at or above 2000 RPM. Centrifugal G-forces may keep the oil from being peicked up. Just keep her topped off! ;-)

KMHPaladin

Thanks for easing my fears about one problem. Now the next question is, how did the oil get that low? I think I <i>may</i> have an answer. I looked up the records from the previous owner. It appears the most recent record of an oil change was on 1/21/03, at 55,251 miles (neither the previous owner nor I drive a lot). It's currently almost a year later, at about 60,150 miles. While the guy I bought the car from was careful about changing oil, it was purchased at 57,500 miles, which should be well before he started thinking about getting another oil change. I talked to him on the phone and he said it had been 4-6 months since the last change when it was purchased, and since the purchase was in late June, that sounds about right.

Now, I added two quarts of 10W30 which brought the oil level right to halfway. On a 5.4 quart tank, that would suggest to me there was .7 quarts in the pan before I added the oil. That suggests burning about 1 quart every thousand miles, which my grandfather asserts isn't a grave issue.

After talking to my grandfather and getting a well-justified lecture for not having checked the oil more frequently, he said that a good test for oil burning is to drive for approximately 15 minutes to get the engine warmed up, then observe your exhaust after stoplights. If there's smoke in the exhaust, you're almost certainly burning oil. I drove around, got to about 200 degrees on the oil gauge and dead center on the main temperature gauge, but even after that, I didn't observe any smoke from the exhaust after stops. I did notice a small amount of smoke after I started the car, gave it a minute to idle, and then gave it about 10 seconds at 2000RPMs in neutral, but it was white and I didn't see any blue tinge.

I've not observed any leaks from the bottom of the car either, which would probably be a good thing at this point considering the alternative necessity of new gaskets. However, given that it's consumed oil, I'm bracing for the worst. Anyone have any further ideas? My grandfather told me to fill it up and observe the oil level over the next thousand miles. That sounds like a good idea to me.

One more thing -given the situation, would you recommend filling the rest with 10W30? The manual states it isn't a problem to mix viscosities, and apparently the last oil change at Don Rosen was 15W40. I'm not sure if there's a specific weight that might be better to combat the possibility of burning, but if there is I'd like to know. Thanks for reading.

MM120

Agree 100%

Jretal

Not everyone here burns oil, but every Audi I've been around (200 TQ, 90 Sport, 90 Coupe Quattro, A4 and TT) has burned some amount of oil. It good for an engine to burn a little bit of oil cuz it lubes up the rings and what not... at least that's what I've been told.

But do keep an eye on it, but realize that a quart or a little less every few thousand miles isn't the end of the world.

Also, some people change their oil ever 7500 miles... that's the schedule I'm on with my car, and the previous owner might have followed that schedule as well.

Hope this helps

KMHPaladin

I left the car after my test-run this evening about 5:00pm and it sat on our driveway until 9:00 when I went to take my sister to her friend's. There was a half-dollar sized covering of oil on the driveway when I checked. Not a pool or anything, just a film on the asphalt.

So... I know there's definitely a problem, which doesn't surprise me, but thankfully it apparently isn't burning oil which would be a much bigger problem. I'm off to search about identifying and fixing oil leaks - any suggestions?

moribundman

Up to 1 quart oil consumption for every 1000 miles is okay per Audi, but it is high. Chances are your engine, like most of ours a one time or another, is leaking oil from somewhere. Take off the lower engine cover and take a good look for oil on the engine and the chassis. I had a leaky valley pan gasket that was misdiagnosed three times as leaky headgaskets! All I ever saw under the car was a drop of oil or so, although I lost about 2/3 quart every 1000 miles. The valve cover gaskets and oil pan gaskets also tend to leak.

If the engine indeed does burn oil, then it's most likely due to worn valve shaft seals. If you decelerate or accelerate you may see a cloud of blue smoke trailing your car.

You can reduce oil consumption by using a thicker oil (higher second number) like 10W-40 or 15W-50 (Mobil M1 15W-50). However, due to the relatively low mileage on your engine I doubt that there is an issue with wear. Make sure you use an ACEA A3-rated oil. If possible find one that meets VW spec 502.00. You can find the specs on the oil bottle. Hope this helps!

KMHPaladin

As I posted below, I think I've identified the problem as you guessed - small oil leak. About a half-dollar's worth of oil on the ground after the car was sitting for 4 hours. Tomorrow before I leave for work I'm going to mark where my axle and the leak spot are, so when I get back and have the time to look I can get a pretty good idea where the leak is coming from.

Any ideas for good walkthroughs to a 12V oil change? My friend pointed out it could well be something simple like a problem with the filter. It's been about a year and 5k miles since the last change, so I think it might be a good idea to get myself a new filter, crush washer, and oil, and do the whole thing myself. While I'm under there I'll give it a look and see if anything obvious leaps out. What kind of labor would be necessary to change the valley pan gasket, the valve cover gasket, or the oil pan gasket?

Thanks for taking the time to reply.

KMHPaladin

I'm not entirely sure about whether they indicate the problem. When I was adding the two quarts of oil, I managed to spill a bit into the bottom of the engine compartment at the beginning of each bottle because it didn't occur to me to take the intake tubes apart to provide easier access.

Annyway... I took these pictures into the engine compartment and from the front passenger side by the belly pan where I thought the oil might have come from. I couldn't get underneath and get the belly pan off because I need to go buy ramps. Unfortunately, now I'm not sure whether the oil that was dripping was a result of the slop when adding oil or an actual leak. I'll hopefully be able to see more when I get the belly pan off.

<img src="http://1.8t.org/~KMHPaladin/audi/oil/eng_comp2.jpg">

<img src="http://1.8t.org/~KMHPaladin/audi/oil/eng_comp1.jpg">

<img src="http://1.8t.org/~KMHPaladin/audi/oil/susp1.jpg">

<img src="http://1.8t.org/~KMHPaladin/audi/oil/susp2.jpg">

moribundman

I can't tell from where it's leaking. It's usually pretty hard to tell, because oil spreads out like mad, especially if an engine isn't totally clean. Get Rhino ramps at Peps Boys (ca $25-30) and take your time searching for the leak. If the engine is dirty, you may want to spray the engine with degreaser, hose it down, and drive maybe 30 miles before checking for a fresh trail of oil.

Get a small flashlight and peek between the cylinder heads via a few small openings in the intake manifold. There you can see the headgaskets, and the valley pan is right in the middle between the heads under the intake manifold. On my car, the whole area was swimming with oil. The oil then dripped down from the rear of the engine and spread all over the driver's side engine and most of the tranny. Mostly it was leaking when driving, so I never saw more than a drop or two under the (oil-filled) belly pan. To get to the valley pan, the intake manifold has to be removed (takes about 4-5 hours all in all).

For an oil change you need a filter wrench, a wrench for the drain bolt, a new crush washer for the drain bolt, a new filter (get a Bosch, Mann or Mahle, Hummel, or Mobil 1), and 6 quarts of oil. I also recommend disposable gloves:

1. Make sure the engine is warm. Warm oil drains better.
2. Drive car up on ramps. Wait a few minutes for the oil to settle.
3. Remove filler cap and dipstick.
4. Remove the old filter. You can do this also after draining the oil, but I prefer it this way around.
5. Place pan under drain bolt and remove drain plug: lefty loosy, and don't burn yourself ;-)
6. Let the oil drain until it stops dripping. I give it about 30 minutes.
7. Wipe the seating area of the drain bolt, use the new crush washer and install the drain plug. Don't tighten it until it spins freely. ;-)
8. Prefill the new filter with some fresh oil, wipe a bit fresh oil on the gasket. Wipe the seating surface of the filter on the oil pan, then spin on the filter hand-tight.
9. Add about 4 quarts of oil. In then push the car off the ramps, because I can't get an accurate reading on the actual oil level while on the ramps. I top it off to the MAX mark on the dipstick.
10. Start the engine, don't rev the motor, and keep an eye on the oil pressure light. It should go out within a few seconds (might take 20 seconds, but that's scary!). Let it idle for three minutes or so, then turn off the engine. Wait 10 minutes, then correct the oil level. Make sure the 710 cap is on. ;-)
11. Test drive, check for leaks, back on the ramps, attach belly pan.

And now you know why a 15 minute oil change at Iffy Lube is a bad idea.



PS: The O-ring between the oil cooler and the oil pan can go bad, too.