DougR

Hi guys,

I've spent a couple-few hours in the archives looking for tuning information on my '00 K04 setup, but there has gotten to be so much commentary on the J31, that I'm bogged down and can't find the hard data I need. Can anybody help? The crux of the matter is that I've recently added an upgraded intercooler to my K04 setup, and I want to push the tuning further along now.

So here's my setup:
2000 A4 1.8TQM
2.5" exhaust
K04-15
GIAC K05 software
5-bar fpr
N75 valve - J or K? Not sure...
One-step colder plugs
And finally, the new addition: Tyrolsport UG SMIC

The car has been running really really well since adding the Tyrolsport SMIC last fall. I'm kind of shocked, actually, at the difference it's made on the street. I let Shine Racing talk me into it, and my thought was that I'd only see the payoff on the track, where heatsoak usually sets in right about the time I get my wits about me. So going back a couple of years, I remember that GIAC had more powerful software for 2000 K04s with an FMIC (J31?) I need to harvest that extra power. No, I don't really need to go faster. But it would be disrespectful to the process to leave potential power gains on the table ;-)

So I'll divide my questions into two categories.

Category 1:
Is there a newer software setup than J31 from GIAC for ATW K04 cars with upgraded intercooler? I saw a post from leosphere (I think) to this effect, and haven't gotten a reply from GIAC yet. Any details?

Category 2:
In addition to J31 software, exactly what do I need to make the car run as well as possible? My understanding is that I will need: upgraded fuel injectors, and an adjustable FPR that will end up set at about 3.7 bar. So here are the specific questions:

** Which fuel injectors are ideal or the correct choice? I've seen reference to Bosch "redtop", Siemens, and RC. Shine is asking me if I'm supposed to be going with the 225TT injectors.

** Do I need to upgrade the MAF? If so, to what?

** Do I need to change the boost control, and if so, how? I've seen a couple posts about running an MBC in parallel with the N75 -- that kinda makes sense to me; let the N75 control the boost, and the MBC prevent spikes, right?

** I can't believe I'm asking this, but here goes: does J31 endanger my motor? I'm a grownup here, I know that none of this stuff lengthens the life of a motor...but I read some vague, ominous posts about losing motors or trannys. If there's a specific threat, I want to go in "eyes-open."


Thanks a lot (in advance) for the help everyone. If there's somewhere else I should be looking for info too, please let me know.

ModifiedA4

<i>Category 1:
Is there a newer software setup than J31 from GIAC for ATW K04 cars with upgraded intercooler? I saw a post from leosphere (I think) to this effect, and haven't gotten a reply from GIAC yet. Any details?</i>

no, not that I knowof, there was a new hi boost/large maf program made for the 2001, there was talk that maybe this would be made for the 2000 as well..but nothing yet.

<i>
Category 2:
In addition to J31 software, exactly what do I need to make the car run as well as possible? My understanding is that I will need: upgraded fuel injectors, and an adjustable FPR that will end up set at about 3.7 bar. So here are the specific questions:
</i>

the minimum you need to run the j31 is a FMIC and the programming. thats it.

<i>
** Which fuel injectors are ideal or the correct choice? I've seen reference to Bosch "redtop", Siemens, and RC. Shine is asking me if I'm supposed to be going with the 225TT injectors.
</i>

personally, id get the 225TT injectors and adjust he fpr to work with that. with other injectors, you're asking for headaches...especially if the injector spray pattern isnt close to stock.

<i>
** Do I need to upgrade the MAF? If so, to what?
</i>
no, that would require a programming change.

<i>
** Do I need to change the boost control, and if so, how? I've seen a couple posts about running an MBC in parallel with the N75 -- that kinda makes sense to me; let the N75 control the boost, and the MBC prevent spikes, right?
</i>
not a bad idea, epsecially with the j31 which can spike to 28psi...ouch. run a mbc in parallel.

<i>
** I can't believe I'm asking this, but here goes: does J31 endanger my motor? I'm a grownup here, I know that none of this stuff lengthens the life of a motor...but I read some vague, ominous posts about losing motors or trannys. If there's a specific threat, I want to go in "eyes-open."</i>

nothing new here, you should already be doing all the preventative type measures..useing synth oil, use the highest octane you can get, etc...etc...

DougR

Thanks for all the details M -- it's a big help.

Interesting that J31 will work with the stock injectors, but I still want to address the fueling. It seems like I read enough comments about the stock injectors running out of fuel up top to make that seem like the right way to go. Plus, my car has a minor detonation issue up top already (which we don't suspect to be fuel related,) that I'm going to try to address before changing software. So are fuel injectors really this simple to tune?

** make sure they fit
** make sure you like the spray pattern
** make sure they have the capacity
** adjust fuel pressure to suit...

Cheers,

j31izzle

I have heard the talk that there is newer software from GIAC but I've yet to confirm that.

I am running J31 happily w/o any problems (although I have some couplers I need to upgrade, minor stuff, etc).

You can run J31 on stock injectors and fpr but stock injectors tend to run full duty at higher rpms and tend to lean out, so upgraded (310cc) injectors along with an afpr is recommended. I am running TT180 317cc injectors (EV12 style, correct ones for dbw) w/ an afpr and that gives you an ability to play around with your fueling settings a little. More on what pressure the afpr should be adjusted can be answered if you decide to go this route. Btw, I have another set of TT180 injectors for sale if you're interested (personally, the only injectors I'd run with this setup) email me.

I am also running stock N75 valve w/o any problems but have an inline MBC to limit boost spikes which can go up to 32psi. I find that limiting it to 23-25psi is ideal for turbo protection for daily driving.

J31 is a high boosting program that uses a lot of timing to increase power. I would say it will cause lesser turbo life than a regular K04 program, but if you are careful and don't overspeed or abuse your turbo you should be fine.

Let me know if you have any more questions.

Alen

illbill

There seems to be a lot of people interested in it, and there just isn't much data out there on it for our engines.

Also, since your in Mass, you should try to come out to the Waltham GTG on the 27th of this month.

<a href="https://forums.audiworld.com/newengland/msgs/31807.phtml">https://forums.audiworld.com/newengland/msgs/31807.phtml</a>

One last thing, and I'm probably going to be flamed for it, like I always am, but it's your car, do what you want. I know Dick and Eli can get very pushy sometimes, especially when it comes to things like aftermarket suspensions.

ModifiedA4

btw, do a CAPS run if you get a chance so we can measure the performance difference. There are quite a few runs made by people with the K05 program and stock SMIC, including myself

Judging by the fact that you have the tyrolsport SMIC, your CAPS times should be faster than a plain old K05 CAPS time with the same ambient temp.<ul><li><a href="http://www.modifieda4.com/web/caps/b518-new.html">link to CAPS database</a></li></ul>

DougR

...as long as the process is simple enough. I've logged a few things in the past, but I'm really a novice with the VAG-COM because I use it so seldomly, I tend to forget everything between uses. So which data blocks? What procedure? How's this: drive around to get everything up to normal operating temps; record ambient temp observations; log RPM and IAT, on a third-gear pull through the rev range?

If you want a completely subjective opinion of the UG SMIC -- I like it; the car is a lot stronger. I think that's a real impression, based in fact, because my expectation was to feel no difference at all.

I'll try and stop by the Waltham GTG. In an odd coincidence, I'll be at SRS that day, so I may be able to stop by on my way home. BTW, no flames from me -- everyone's got their own opinion. Dick and Eli have been *great* to me, and I recommend SRS to many many people. They *did* push me on the intercooler...but hell, I was ready to buy an intercooler; I'd just never heard of the Tyrolsport one at that point.

DougR

The CAPS run sounds like fun, I'll see if I can find some time this weekend. I'm a little bit afraid that my car will be, ummm, extra slow, and then I'll learn I have more maintenance to do though. Hmmm..

Ok, so you and Alen agree on fuel then? In your first post you suggested going with the TT225 injectors, so I've gotta ask about the change-of-heart. Alen, why the TT180 and not the 225? I'm kind of wondering whether Garrett will release new software using all OEM/stock components -- TT225 injectors and MAF, 3 bar FPR, for instance..

illbill

I logged 2 main things -

Block 003 &amp; 020 (timing &amp; timing retard)
Block 004 (Intake Air Temperature)

A multiple gear pull will show how well the IC deals with heatsoak, but for logging timing retard I felt that doing back to back 3rd gear pulls was sufficient. I think if you keep your IATs consistently below 50 deg C it will be good enough for J31. Also logging a CAPS time and checking the database will get you a good idea of how you compare against other k04 setups.

Definitely try to come out to Uno's, it's looking like it might get a little crowded though =)

Yep, no denying that Dick and Eli do <b>great</b> work on Audis.

cheers
shawn

DougR

Thanks Alen, it's great to hear from someone else running this setup successfully. A couple followups:

Is there any particular reason you're running the MBC inline with the N75, rather than in parallel? It seems like inline might be easier to plumb than parallel, but I can't think of another difference.

EV12 vs. EV6 -- I haven't done much searching on this yet. Is there any particular trick to ending up with the right or wrong fitment here? Is this part of the part number or something?

THanks again,