Scott

I have been asking questions for a while now, because I just want to make sure I know exactly the car as well as the products that I buy in the future. Anyways, I have heard that APR is coming out with stage 3 kit producing 300+hp. Going through the archives, it seems like it comes with an, ecu, injectors, exhast manifold, exhast, interlcooler and the turbo. I assume that you need a high performance clutch to handle the power but what about the engine? Is there a need to lower the compression or other ways to ensure the safety of the engine? I am considering the kit but just worried about the reliability of my car. If you pay $6000+ for the turbo kit I don't want the car to be constantly in the shop, I want to enjoy the car. <br> Also, I have heard about modified A4's overheating on the track. Is it because the stock radiator or intercoolers not large enough?? Is this going to be a problem with the 300+hp kits too?? I would love to take my 300hp A4 and tear up to track. <br> Another thought, since the 2.8 PES SC is only pushing 5psi, why not lower the compression to something like 8:1 and push 7-10 psi. I bet you can push 310+hp. BUT again, is reliability going to be an issue?<br> <br>thank you for your time and effort,<br>Scott <p>ps: I know that the car is only reliable as the driver, but if it's too much for the engine than it doesn't make any difference who the driver is. thanks again

MichaelB

You certainly could do that; however, the whole point of the PES kit is that it is a true "bolt-on" kit. If you start swapping out pistons to lower the compression, the kit becomes much more involved as far as installation. <p>If one individual wanted to go through the trouble fo swapping out the pistons, the ECU would have to be modified and the pulley would need to be swapped for higher boost. The pulley is easy; however, the ECU tuning is not. If you paid PES to create a one off custom chip for a lower compression, higher boost 2.8, it could be done. It might cost you an arm and a leg considering how much time and effort it took PES to get the current 2.8 chip to its current state of tune.<p>Mike

Cameron

Just because a "kit" contains certain things does not mean that your car will be the best car out there because it has a given "kit" on it.<p>I believe your concerns about heat are likely valid. As you noted the APR stage that will be reaching 300 horse includes a front-mount intercooler. Yes, the stock intercooler and radiator are not suitable for high power levels. How "high power levels" is defined remains to be seen, but the only failures I've heard about on the track have been improperly (or badly) installed K04 kits.<p>Also, note that there are radiators available with integral oil coolers (I plan to get one installed in my A4).<p>There is a six-plate clutch available that fits the A4 and will handle far more than 300bhp.<p>What I don't understand is why you are figuring $6000 for the kit. For the sake of others on the track and for your own safety, please consider getting a brake kit (at minimum get the Brembo Big Reds).<p>And, lastly, with any good upgrade the maintainence is no different from stock. Change your oil. Change the fluid in your differentials and trans. next time you have the car taken apart. Etc. Just take care of the car and it'll take care of you.<p>Cameron

JonathanD

My guess (for what it's worth) is that the over-heating cars are from the tiny intercooler on the A4. Also, with the very resrictive manifold, that little turbo can get way too hot as well. The APR stage III will have a very large, front mounted intercooler (I've seen it, it's pretty impressive, especially next to the stock). I'm guessing that with a proper intercooler, larger turbo and proper manifold, cooling shouldn't be a problem. I know the older S4/S6 (2.2L) cars are extremely different from the A4, but people run 360hp (30lbs boost) with chip, intake, intercooler, larger turbo, and manifold, and have no problems with cooling. As I said, very different cars, but I think that it says something about Audi's turbo cars. They can take a lot of tuning and HP and keep going for many, many miles. As I always do, I would recommend calling APR and asking them your exact questions. They don't BS. Also, I believe that they will offer a 280hp version as well, with upgraded intercooler that is not as large and mounts in the stock location. Double check that when you call though. Good luck.<p>JonathanD

Cathleen

You have some valid questions but you should also contact Stephen at APR and ask him personally, rather than just relying on heresay.<br>The guys at APR are engineers and they're putting a lot of work in to this upgrade, specifically to avoid any problems. They won't release the product until it has met stringent criteria on both the street and dyno tests. It's their reputation on the line and they know what they are doing.<br>From the actual things I've seen at the track, many of the "problems" I've seen at track events were issues related to stock turbos and other chip mfgs. <br>Regarding the 300hp APR upgrade, I believe APR is using the Garrett turbo in the package(not related to Garrett Lim the chip designer/med. student) but the turbo company). <br>I'm sure that you can get many opinions on the subject from people on this board but you should also go to the source and find out exactly what they are doing with the upgrade to avoid the issues you are leery about.<br>My $ 0.02.<br>-Cathleen

JonathanD

yeah, what she said...

Steve S.

I found this pic on the web...Cathleen, did you post it before?...I can't remember.<p>Steve S.<br>97 2.8QM

Scott

I really appreciate all the comments I recieved so quickly. I have some experience with aftermarket tuners for a couple years now and I have learned never to trust them without asking for other opinions. I want to be educated. I have been ripped off before. Here's a quick story. I own an integra LS and wanted some work done to the engine. I went to a shop which has been around for 10+ years, currently has the fastest N/A integra LS in the world and is one of the most respected in the industry. I put my trust in them. It turned out to be a 8 month ordeal and sometimes I really question if they know what they are doing. that's is why I don't really trust a salesman telling how reliable or safe a product is. I just don't want to be ripped off again. APR is probably a great company but i'm just being extra cautious. I don't want to be the fastest or flashest out there, I just want to have fun in my next car and I feel that the A4 will do this for me. Thanks for all the input<p>Scott

Cathleen

I think that Cameron must have posted that. He was there with camera in hand.<br>Too bad there's no pics of me overtaking that (older) S4. ;-) That's like...."really, my fish was THISSSSSSS big!"<br>It was a blast, though.<br>-Cathleen<p>

Rich L.

Brett does much, maybe even most, of the tuning work and is a part owner in the company. He is a straight shooter and seems genuinely interested in helping out.<p>Talking with him cinched my APR chip purchase.<p>Good luck,<br>Rich<br>