A4 2.8q vrs. 4000csq
02-07-2007, 07:04 AM
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A4 2.8q vrs. 4000csq
Anyone have any comments on the differences between the A4 2.8q vrs the 4000csq? I'm considering another car and wanted some real world experience comments. I like the looks, but I've never driven one.
thanks,
thanks,
02-07-2007, 07:08 AM
#2
Which do you have? The 4000 will drive like a very old car by comparison...
and the old 10v (110hp) motor will feel anemic, and slow revving. When I went from my 80 with the 2.3l motor, even a 12v felt FAST comparatively.
comfort, the A4 kills the 4k. Handling, the 4k is a light small car, low CG. With good suspension and tires, they are very fun to toss around. But then again, so is an A4.
comfort, the A4 kills the 4k. Handling, the 4k is a light small car, low CG. With good suspension and tires, they are very fun to toss around. But then again, so is an A4.
02-07-2007, 08:02 AM
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Depends on which 2.8quattro you're talking about- 12v vs 30v
The 12v with 172hp stock will be harder to extract more power from than the 30v, which you can chip to gain around 10hp I believe, or supercharge it to make a reliable 295.
Tuning the 12v requires a lot more old-school N/A tuning know-how, but you can extract quite a bit. Not more than a probable 230shp with the currently tried and accepted modifications. It's just a lot more frustrating than tuning a 1.8T or 30v, which can be as simple as whipping out your credit card.
As Kris Hansen said, the A4 will be lightyears ahead of the 4000csq in terms of comfort and fit/finish, and so on. It really depends on what your objectives with the second car are - and what your current car is, and what your needs are. Jretal is dropping in an AAN motor (I think) as said before, and his 4000CSQ will ostensibly be a track/autoX type car and not a daily driver. If I bought a 4kq it'd be for the same reasons.
Tuning the 12v requires a lot more old-school N/A tuning know-how, but you can extract quite a bit. Not more than a probable 230shp with the currently tried and accepted modifications. It's just a lot more frustrating than tuning a 1.8T or 30v, which can be as simple as whipping out your credit card.
As Kris Hansen said, the A4 will be lightyears ahead of the 4000csq in terms of comfort and fit/finish, and so on. It really depends on what your objectives with the second car are - and what your current car is, and what your needs are. Jretal is dropping in an AAN motor (I think) as said before, and his 4000CSQ will ostensibly be a track/autoX type car and not a daily driver. If I bought a 4kq it'd be for the same reasons.
02-07-2007, 08:12 AM
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4kq comfort? I fit great in them. I drive both and could go on for hours about the.........
likes and dislikes of the A4. Not much bad to be said about the 4kq assuming you accept the fact it is not as refined as the B5. I'm not impressed with all the creature comforts of the A4 that are not working as they should. Leaving right now to go have the front suspension of the Avant checked out again. Moaning and a groaning along with road chatter again in less than one year. Maybe a bit of a rant right now but who knows how I'll feel about it in a few hours. Update to come??
02-07-2007, 08:13 AM
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there is a good bit of difference between the two cars from my experience...
On a sound level:
There is a fair bit more road noise in teh 4000 vs the A4 (I'm just going to use my '96 12v as the basis of this since that's what I can best compare to). It's not obscenely loud, but you def notice a difference, esp if trying to talk on a cell phone, etc.
Performance Level:
The 4000 is going to feel like a "heavier" car to drive because it doesn't have all the fancy assist stuff the A4s have. The clutch is stiffer (though not really hard, just different) and lets out lower than the A4 does. Also, steering is heavier than the A4. You def feel more of the road in the 4000.
In terms of handling, it's apples and oranges really. If you're going to rock the 4000 stock, the A4 will run circles around it just because it has a better suspension vs the macpherson strut that exists in the 4000. That being said, if you decide to do some performance suspension on the 4000, it might (and most likely will) handle better than the A4 w/ similar suspension because of the weight difference. The 4kq weighs in at ~2800lbs, vs ~3400lbs (my 12v, heavier on others).
As far as power... lol. No comparison. After driving the 4000 for 2 weeks straight, my 12v feels like a rocket ship. those 115hp of the 4000 do scoot pretty good, but an extra 50hp is kinda nice... now once I"m done with this turbo upgrade in the 4k, that is going to be a different story because the 4k will have the same power output as my 12v (mild tune to ~200hp) and weigh 800lbs less... and trust me, that weight DOES make a difference.
That's about all I can think about comparison-wise... shoot more questions at me if theres something I didn't cover. All in all, the 4000 is just an older feeling car... not necessarily a bad thing depending on what you're looking for honestly. I enjoyed driving my 4000 for the 2 months it worked (lol), but def look forward to it being back on the road again better than ever!
There is a fair bit more road noise in teh 4000 vs the A4 (I'm just going to use my '96 12v as the basis of this since that's what I can best compare to). It's not obscenely loud, but you def notice a difference, esp if trying to talk on a cell phone, etc.
Performance Level:
The 4000 is going to feel like a "heavier" car to drive because it doesn't have all the fancy assist stuff the A4s have. The clutch is stiffer (though not really hard, just different) and lets out lower than the A4 does. Also, steering is heavier than the A4. You def feel more of the road in the 4000.
In terms of handling, it's apples and oranges really. If you're going to rock the 4000 stock, the A4 will run circles around it just because it has a better suspension vs the macpherson strut that exists in the 4000. That being said, if you decide to do some performance suspension on the 4000, it might (and most likely will) handle better than the A4 w/ similar suspension because of the weight difference. The 4kq weighs in at ~2800lbs, vs ~3400lbs (my 12v, heavier on others).
As far as power... lol. No comparison. After driving the 4000 for 2 weeks straight, my 12v feels like a rocket ship. those 115hp of the 4000 do scoot pretty good, but an extra 50hp is kinda nice... now once I"m done with this turbo upgrade in the 4k, that is going to be a different story because the 4k will have the same power output as my 12v (mild tune to ~200hp) and weigh 800lbs less... and trust me, that weight DOES make a difference.
That's about all I can think about comparison-wise... shoot more questions at me if theres something I didn't cover. All in all, the 4000 is just an older feeling car... not necessarily a bad thing depending on what you're looking for honestly. I enjoyed driving my 4000 for the 2 months it worked (lol), but def look forward to it being back on the road again better than ever!
02-07-2007, 08:15 AM
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MC 10vt motor, not AAN...
and it'll be a daily driver as well as a track toy 
won't become a fully dedicated track toy until I do a roll cage, and that won't be for a long while.
won't become a fully dedicated track toy until I do a roll cage, and that won't be for a long while.
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02-07-2007, 10:43 AM
#8
A comment..
We've had both(87 4000 csq, 96 12v qm & 00 30v qm). There are some great aspects of the 4000s but there is really very little comparasion to say a 30v A4. They are a much rawer car across the board. The raspy exhaust note is great though. I miss that. Those old recaro seats are still very comfortible, they seemingly have changed very little. For the most part in those older quattros, the awd system is not actuated most of the time except in really bad conditions. So one tends to run in the 2wd mode the majority of the time. This lends to a completely different experience versus the newer gen A4 q which is on all the time. Take all them out for a drive, and see which you like best.