A4 and Passat?
11-12-1999, 03:28 PM
#11
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Re: A4 and Passat?
I drove a Passat V6 Tip. The Passat had price size and the V6 going for it. There is NO comparison relative to the suspension with my 1.8T A4 quattro with sport suspension. Frankly I think the ride quality of the Passat is poor. I believe this due to the cheaper resuspension design of the Passat.
11-12-1999, 04:22 PM
#13
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Re: A4 and Passat? (long)
I have a 99.5 A4 1.8t tip fwd with Trip computer and sunroof. It stickered at 26,000, but I got it for around 24 (just over invoice) I think it compares favorably with the Passat. Test drove the Passat before buying the A4, and it didn't have nearly as many features as my A4 for the same money, and it didn't feel as fast. The dealers down here in Fla. werent' willing to negotiate very much on the Passat, so the A4 was actually less than a comparably equipped Pass. The 1.8t has plenty of power in the stock form - if you are used to a 4 cylinder engine. If you are coming out of big block v8, you may be disappointed.
11-13-1999, 04:23 AM
#14
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As a Passat 1.8T owner...
...I would say that the 1.8T is not at all underpowered compared to the V6. I test drove both Passats, and an A4 1.8Tqms (Quattro-Manual-Sport). I liked the Quattro and the sport package of the A4 the best, but, in the end, couldn't justify the extra cost. (The A4 was ~$25k, while I got my Passat for $19.5k.)
When it came to choosing between the Passat 1.8T and 2.8 V6, I actually preferred the 1.8T, even though I have no plans to chip it. It didn't feel underpowered to me at all, while the V6 (subjectively) felt like it was lacking in low-end grunt. The 1.8T also just felt "sportier" to me (being some 300 lbs lighter in the front end probably helped a lot).
That said, the best advice has already been given to you: take them all for nice, long test drives (without the salesman if at all possible), and make up your own mind.
When it came to choosing between the Passat 1.8T and 2.8 V6, I actually preferred the 1.8T, even though I have no plans to chip it. It didn't feel underpowered to me at all, while the V6 (subjectively) felt like it was lacking in low-end grunt. The 1.8T also just felt "sportier" to me (being some 300 lbs lighter in the front end probably helped a lot).
That said, the best advice has already been given to you: take them all for nice, long test drives (without the salesman if at all possible), and make up your own mind.
11-13-1999, 08:09 AM
#15
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I've been doing some research. Invoice comparison inside...
Like folks said, drive both the A4 and Passat w/ similar engines and suspensions and see which you like better. Hell, my wife just *sat* in the A4 and knew that it was for her (she was all ready to sign on a Passat when she did this at a whim), the rest was A4 1.8T FWD history (no sport suspension no quattro). Turned out to be about only $1500 more than she would have spent on a similarly equipped Passat at the time.
IIRC, the non-sport suspensions are the same *design*, while probably not the exact same spring/dampening rates. Quattro gives you a more sophisticated rear suspension design than either the FrontTrak (FWD) A4 or Passat.
4-Motion will be coming to the Passat first (maybe 2000), then the Golf/Jetta platform (who knows...). When it does, the rear suspension in the Golf/Jetta will be upgraded to fully independent (not torsion beam) and the springs/dampers will be higher rate/valving. If you are willing to consider the Jetta (size wise), keep in mind that the 1.8T engine will be released in the Golf/Jetta later in the spring of 2000, and will most likely cost less than the VR6 (but perhaps slightly more than the 2.0L 4-cyl. it replaces).
If you really like to drive, I have no question that the A4 will feel better to you, even in stock front-wheel drive form than most VW products. However, if you really want to save money, you could wait until the Jetta gets the 1.8T, and then you could spend about $750-1500 on suspension upgrades and wheels/tires and have a damn-fine handling car for much cheaper than a A4 1.8T sport. If you need space, you'll find the Jetta absolutely cramped in the rear, with the A4 mildly smaller than the larger (inside and out) Passat.
See some invoice prices below. Keep in mind that some come w/ more std. equipment than others (ie. GLX line of VWs are loaded w/ almost every option).
Jetta GTI Passat Jetta A4 1.8T
GLS VR6 GLX GLS GLX
18,164 20,576 19,293 21,976 21,356
It is where the options come in that the price really increases. Also the V6 in either Passat or A4 will considerably increase price.
IIRC, the non-sport suspensions are the same *design*, while probably not the exact same spring/dampening rates. Quattro gives you a more sophisticated rear suspension design than either the FrontTrak (FWD) A4 or Passat.
4-Motion will be coming to the Passat first (maybe 2000), then the Golf/Jetta platform (who knows...). When it does, the rear suspension in the Golf/Jetta will be upgraded to fully independent (not torsion beam) and the springs/dampers will be higher rate/valving. If you are willing to consider the Jetta (size wise), keep in mind that the 1.8T engine will be released in the Golf/Jetta later in the spring of 2000, and will most likely cost less than the VR6 (but perhaps slightly more than the 2.0L 4-cyl. it replaces).
If you really like to drive, I have no question that the A4 will feel better to you, even in stock front-wheel drive form than most VW products. However, if you really want to save money, you could wait until the Jetta gets the 1.8T, and then you could spend about $750-1500 on suspension upgrades and wheels/tires and have a damn-fine handling car for much cheaper than a A4 1.8T sport. If you need space, you'll find the Jetta absolutely cramped in the rear, with the A4 mildly smaller than the larger (inside and out) Passat.
See some invoice prices below. Keep in mind that some come w/ more std. equipment than others (ie. GLX line of VWs are loaded w/ almost every option).
Jetta GTI Passat Jetta A4 1.8T
GLS VR6 GLX GLS GLX
18,164 20,576 19,293 21,976 21,356
It is where the options come in that the price really increases. Also the V6 in either Passat or A4 will considerably increase price.
11-13-1999, 11:02 AM
#16
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Re: A4 and Passat? (Long Response)
I seriously considered the Passat (as well as the Saab 9-5), but went with the A4 2.8. Here's my observations:
1) Platform issues - Yes, VW and Audi does utilize a number of same components in both the Passat and A4, but it's surprising how different the two cars feel. You really do to test drive the two cars to see for yourself, but to sum it up, the A4 is the sportier of the two. The Passat is a bigger car and you definitely feel the bigger rear end and the softer suspension settings when you go through the twisties.
2) Quattro vs ??? - VW has been promising an AWD version of the Passat for a couple of years but it's still no where to be seen in the U.S. I take the promise of an AWD Jetta with a grain of salt. But even if it does come, the Jetta has a couple of drawbacks. First, the interior of Jetta is even tighter than the A4 - the A4 is cozy, the Jetta is definitely cramped. Second, every car mag that I've read complains about the Jetta's soft suspension - plan to upgrade with an aftermarket suspension.
3)1.8T vs. 2.8 - The 1.8T is a GREAT engine if you like to upgrade. Even if you just chip (few hundred bucks), you'll easily be matching or exceeding the performance of the 2.8. I went with the 2.8 because I like its more refined (yet, still sporty) nature. And I wanted all the luxury items that aren't available on the 1.8T (leather, wood, etc.) Having been a participant on this board for quite some time now, I feel that had I got the 1.8T, I would definitely have chipped it. I can't seem to recall ANY engine failures due to chipping, and despite threats of voided warranties, there seems to have been no such cases that I can recall. Some dealers will give you the fire and brimstone lecture about chipping and how it will void you warranty, but by using the resources of this site, you can usually find another dealer who is 'chip friendly' and just doesn't care. But I suppose, there is always the chance that an engine failure or voided warranty could occur. If you can't handle the possibility, get the 2.8 - it won't disappoint.
4)$35,000 A4 2.8 vs $23,000 Passat - Well, first of all, your $23K Passat has the 1.8T engine, and if you were concerned about performance and upgrade issues with the A4 1.8T, you're in the same boat here. A loaded Passat V6 will run you closer to $29,000 (MSRP) - at least that's what a GLX was running when I was shopping, it might be more now. I don't know what percentage over invoice a VW dealer will be willing to give, but the standard for Audi dealers seems to be 5-6% over invoice (walkout if they won't give you this). The MSRP on my loaded '99 A4 2.8QMS was nearly $36,000, but I got it for $33,425 which was 5% over invoice.
5) Glorified Passat? - Definitely not. The Passat is a wonderful car at a very attractive price, but after ten months of A4 ownership, I can firmly state that the A4 satisfies me like no other car I've ever driven. I would have liked the Passat a lot, but I love my A4. If you enjoy spirited driving, the A4 is the complete package. If a cushier ride, more head room, more back seat leg room, and an even bigger trunk are more important issues for you, the Passat is probably the car for you. One thing I have noticed after nearly a year of ownership is that my A4 is still a beautiful car, while the design of the Passat seems increasingly frumpy to me.
6) The essentials - If you do decide to get an A4, the following items are things I consider essential to experiencing the Audi experience at its best:
5-speed Manual Transmission
Quattro
Sports Suspension (unless you plan an aftermarket upgrade)
Well, all this talking has pooped me out, but I hope I gave you a starting point. But the bottom line is - drive them! It's the only way to really know what type of car best suits you.
Good luck - Rog
'99 Silver 2.8QMS
1) Platform issues - Yes, VW and Audi does utilize a number of same components in both the Passat and A4, but it's surprising how different the two cars feel. You really do to test drive the two cars to see for yourself, but to sum it up, the A4 is the sportier of the two. The Passat is a bigger car and you definitely feel the bigger rear end and the softer suspension settings when you go through the twisties.
2) Quattro vs ??? - VW has been promising an AWD version of the Passat for a couple of years but it's still no where to be seen in the U.S. I take the promise of an AWD Jetta with a grain of salt. But even if it does come, the Jetta has a couple of drawbacks. First, the interior of Jetta is even tighter than the A4 - the A4 is cozy, the Jetta is definitely cramped. Second, every car mag that I've read complains about the Jetta's soft suspension - plan to upgrade with an aftermarket suspension.
3)1.8T vs. 2.8 - The 1.8T is a GREAT engine if you like to upgrade. Even if you just chip (few hundred bucks), you'll easily be matching or exceeding the performance of the 2.8. I went with the 2.8 because I like its more refined (yet, still sporty) nature. And I wanted all the luxury items that aren't available on the 1.8T (leather, wood, etc.) Having been a participant on this board for quite some time now, I feel that had I got the 1.8T, I would definitely have chipped it. I can't seem to recall ANY engine failures due to chipping, and despite threats of voided warranties, there seems to have been no such cases that I can recall. Some dealers will give you the fire and brimstone lecture about chipping and how it will void you warranty, but by using the resources of this site, you can usually find another dealer who is 'chip friendly' and just doesn't care. But I suppose, there is always the chance that an engine failure or voided warranty could occur. If you can't handle the possibility, get the 2.8 - it won't disappoint.
4)$35,000 A4 2.8 vs $23,000 Passat - Well, first of all, your $23K Passat has the 1.8T engine, and if you were concerned about performance and upgrade issues with the A4 1.8T, you're in the same boat here. A loaded Passat V6 will run you closer to $29,000 (MSRP) - at least that's what a GLX was running when I was shopping, it might be more now. I don't know what percentage over invoice a VW dealer will be willing to give, but the standard for Audi dealers seems to be 5-6% over invoice (walkout if they won't give you this). The MSRP on my loaded '99 A4 2.8QMS was nearly $36,000, but I got it for $33,425 which was 5% over invoice.
5) Glorified Passat? - Definitely not. The Passat is a wonderful car at a very attractive price, but after ten months of A4 ownership, I can firmly state that the A4 satisfies me like no other car I've ever driven. I would have liked the Passat a lot, but I love my A4. If you enjoy spirited driving, the A4 is the complete package. If a cushier ride, more head room, more back seat leg room, and an even bigger trunk are more important issues for you, the Passat is probably the car for you. One thing I have noticed after nearly a year of ownership is that my A4 is still a beautiful car, while the design of the Passat seems increasingly frumpy to me.
6) The essentials - If you do decide to get an A4, the following items are things I consider essential to experiencing the Audi experience at its best:
5-speed Manual Transmission
Quattro
Sports Suspension (unless you plan an aftermarket upgrade)
Well, all this talking has pooped me out, but I hope I gave you a starting point. But the bottom line is - drive them! It's the only way to really know what type of car best suits you.
Good luck - Rog
'99 Silver 2.8QMS
11-13-1999, 06:29 PM
#20
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Posts: n/a
I have both
I have a 98 Avant 2.8 quattro that is simply the best! I just got a 99 1.8 Passat (because my wife drives the A4 mostly). The Passat does not compare to the feel of the A4. I do not have the suspension upgrade on the A4 and I still love it. The Passat just doesn't have the same feel. However, it is the next best thing and that's why I have the Passat(used for to and from work).
I drive the A4 in the evenings(except for the parking lot trips) and on the weekends. Now when I get back in the A4 after a week of the Passat I am like ...Ah!!!
I love them both. Maybe if I upgrade my wheels and rubber on the Passat it will make a difference. I need to research this. Anybody? I plan on chipping and Ronal wheels.
The power in the Passat is suprisingly powerful for the 1.8. The 2.8 is definitely faster, but with chipping the Passat might make it as fast
Dave K
98.0 A4 Avant QTTT (tint, tip and tips)
99.0 Passat 1.8 (nothing yet)
I drive the A4 in the evenings(except for the parking lot trips) and on the weekends. Now when I get back in the A4 after a week of the Passat I am like ...Ah!!!
I love them both. Maybe if I upgrade my wheels and rubber on the Passat it will make a difference. I need to research this. Anybody? I plan on chipping and Ronal wheels.
The power in the Passat is suprisingly powerful for the 1.8. The 2.8 is definitely faster, but with chipping the Passat might make it as fast
Dave K
98.0 A4 Avant QTTT (tint, tip and tips)
99.0 Passat 1.8 (nothing yet)
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