How is the turbo lag on APR stage 3?
06-22-2001, 11:35 AM
#71
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Hold on now, lets be a little more level headed...
You are absolutely correct that Stage III is currently the pinnacle of A4 turbo kits. Is it overpriced? I don't think so. Is it expensive? Yes, it is very expensive. 4k is alot of money for a turbo kit, 4k might be the total budget a average A4 owner is willing to put into their car. I think i have about 3k in my A4 right now, as an example. The total mods on the Audi might be around 6k when all is said and done, years from now.
The 1.8T has a wonderful reputation because of chipping and the K04. These are two extremely cost effective ways to dramatically improve performance. AWE's K04 kit (as an example) which is complete, runs about 1700. That is a nice low buy in. Now the nice thing about that kit is you can upgrade later with a FMIC and other goodies if you want, but with the K04 and an exhaust, you are looking at around 235hp. That is great output and leaves you enough budget for other things. That is also a nice, reliable, stealth kit that will last as well or better than a chipped K03.
Put another way, when funds are limited, the better balanced car would be a A4 with a K04, a spring/shock upgrade, a brake upgrade, and an exhaust. This car would be better than a stock A4 with a Stage III.
When you do decide to spend 4k+ then you expect a hell-on-wheels tuning result. For instance, the FMII turbo kits for Miatas get you ~230hp on the Miata, and the kits retail around 4k.
The guys with Stage III have decided to go with the best, and of course you need to put your money where your mouth is to be the best. But what saddens me is that this board gets so fixated on dyno plots, etc, that people here are starting to have the attitude of Stage III or nothing. I mean, i honestly think ill be a little ashamed when i finally order my K04 kit, because i didn't get the Stage III. I think that is why some people here are so combative with APR Stage III, because its making everything else look like cheap, shoddy alternatives, which is not true.
We need to respect the fact that different people have different pain tolerances when it comes to modding their cars. For me, i have to shower love on two cars, so that means things like Stage III are never gonna be a reality unless i make partner somewhere.
All the current Stage III people here on AW have been exemplary in their attitudes. I do not defend Ken and CMH and other's, but i can understand where they are coming from. Stage III is the Goliath, and you all know how much people root for the Davids of the world.
Cheers
The 1.8T has a wonderful reputation because of chipping and the K04. These are two extremely cost effective ways to dramatically improve performance. AWE's K04 kit (as an example) which is complete, runs about 1700. That is a nice low buy in. Now the nice thing about that kit is you can upgrade later with a FMIC and other goodies if you want, but with the K04 and an exhaust, you are looking at around 235hp. That is great output and leaves you enough budget for other things. That is also a nice, reliable, stealth kit that will last as well or better than a chipped K03.
Put another way, when funds are limited, the better balanced car would be a A4 with a K04, a spring/shock upgrade, a brake upgrade, and an exhaust. This car would be better than a stock A4 with a Stage III.
When you do decide to spend 4k+ then you expect a hell-on-wheels tuning result. For instance, the FMII turbo kits for Miatas get you ~230hp on the Miata, and the kits retail around 4k.
The guys with Stage III have decided to go with the best, and of course you need to put your money where your mouth is to be the best. But what saddens me is that this board gets so fixated on dyno plots, etc, that people here are starting to have the attitude of Stage III or nothing. I mean, i honestly think ill be a little ashamed when i finally order my K04 kit, because i didn't get the Stage III. I think that is why some people here are so combative with APR Stage III, because its making everything else look like cheap, shoddy alternatives, which is not true.
We need to respect the fact that different people have different pain tolerances when it comes to modding their cars. For me, i have to shower love on two cars, so that means things like Stage III are never gonna be a reality unless i make partner somewhere.
All the current Stage III people here on AW have been exemplary in their attitudes. I do not defend Ken and CMH and other's, but i can understand where they are coming from. Stage III is the Goliath, and you all know how much people root for the Davids of the world.
Cheers
06-22-2001, 11:53 AM
#74
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Luv ya man. :D Well said.
I have never heard, nor know of ONE stage 3 owner than thinks less of any fellow enthusiast that owns a K04, or looks down on them. Most would support someone's decision to go the K04 route, as an appropriate path to follow, if it met the needs (on all levels) of the enthusiast. There is NOTHING anyone should ever be ashamed of, when it comes to personalizing their car, for performance or show, anymore than laughing at someone for their choice in life partners. Everyone has their ideal of what is best, and mature, intelligent people will recognize that fact. It's a sad thing in my book when people come out of the closet to try an put down someone's choice in performance modifications. Many that seem to rally around a K04 are guilty of saying that the K04 is the ONLY solution, which is something they seem to blame stage 3 owners of preaching. It is not stage 3 or nothing, any more than it's K04 or nothing. There are a multitude of options available, that are of the highest quality, for many levels of performance satisfaction. Many are content with the virtues of a chip, and many are content with a stock car, or even a 2.8 
06-22-2001, 12:06 PM
#75
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I love you as well Ed :)
Your comments are dead accurate. Fact is the Stage III guys are on top of the A4 world, so they are gracious, and usually articulate (its a painful decision for anyone to spend Stage III money). These guys did the cost/benefit analysis, and it shows.
The flip side are the guys here on AW on the outside looking in. They feel slighted, or have an inferiority complex because of Stage III, and i feel their pain. Look at CMH, or WClark for example. Yes these have said alot of crazy sh*t. But think about it, here is are guys who are obviously into their car, and spends alot of time fine tuning it...yet anyone with funding can get a Stage III and surpass them. That's gotta be frustrating. It's somewhat similar to computers, an out-of-the-box Dell system today, ordered by a complete moron, will very likely outperform a comp engineer's fully optimized, but 2 year old computer, despite all the attention and efforts of that engineer. Does this make sense? Pleas note that i am not saying Stage III owners aren't vehicularly sophsicated (sp).
Since these kits don't compete, you have a clear case of better v. affordable. Not everyone is comfortable with admitting they made the best choice for their pocketbook, and not the track. I am, because i spent it elswhere. Maybe if i had just one car i would feel the need to get the best for it, dunno.
Cheers
The flip side are the guys here on AW on the outside looking in. They feel slighted, or have an inferiority complex because of Stage III, and i feel their pain. Look at CMH, or WClark for example. Yes these have said alot of crazy sh*t. But think about it, here is are guys who are obviously into their car, and spends alot of time fine tuning it...yet anyone with funding can get a Stage III and surpass them. That's gotta be frustrating. It's somewhat similar to computers, an out-of-the-box Dell system today, ordered by a complete moron, will very likely outperform a comp engineer's fully optimized, but 2 year old computer, despite all the attention and efforts of that engineer. Does this make sense? Pleas note that i am not saying Stage III owners aren't vehicularly sophsicated (sp).
Since these kits don't compete, you have a clear case of better v. affordable. Not everyone is comfortable with admitting they made the best choice for their pocketbook, and not the track. I am, because i spent it elswhere. Maybe if i had just one car i would feel the need to get the best for it, dunno.
Cheers
06-22-2001, 02:03 PM
#79
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I'm on the fence about it as well...
...but I have to admit, its tempting. The thing that keeps me on the fence is this:
I'm on the other side of the US w/ no local APR distributor to go to for trouble shooting in case of problems w/ their product. Driving to NorCal isn't exactly what I had in mind as far as a couple hours away.
I could go local, but I'm sure 235hp is not enough to satiate my need for speed.
Though about going custom as proposed by a local AW'er running a T28, but that means extensive tuning meaning time, $$$, and $$$ for the tuner's time.
Decisions, decisions...
I'm on the other side of the US w/ no local APR distributor to go to for trouble shooting in case of problems w/ their product. Driving to NorCal isn't exactly what I had in mind as far as a couple hours away.
I could go local, but I'm sure 235hp is not enough to satiate my need for speed.
Though about going custom as proposed by a local AW'er running a T28, but that means extensive tuning meaning time, $$$, and $$$ for the tuner's time.
Decisions, decisions...
06-22-2001, 02:34 PM
#80
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Probably to maintain a neutral position. They maintain the site with advertising money...
and need to stay neutral in regards to the clients. Even the most objective test would irk the potential advertiser that may not do well. It's not like AW is set up like consumer reports, where they can afford to be clearly objective, and not seem to be pandering to the advertiser.
That would be my guess.
That would be my guess.