lowering car and control arms
12-05-2004, 01:21 PM
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lowering car and control arms
Just wondering if a lowering a B5 will cause the control arms to wear out quicker. If so, how much quicker would they wear? Anyone here experience that?
12-05-2004, 01:26 PM
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stiffer shocks/springs will cause more stress on the arms....
i had 2 arms fail (one for a bushing, one for a balljoint) in less than 30K after modding. the set before that all the arms went 90K +/-.
12-05-2004, 01:39 PM
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I cant take you seriously with the name "import racer"
To answer the question.... lets examine how the control arms work or fail to work.
Its the ball joints on the outter ends that fail typically. I'm going to say no it really doesnt matter much, since the arms fail regularly on cars that have NO mods at all. As for lifespan of the arms... it might be reduced a little bit, but not by much... I'd say the weight of the vehicle is more important. If you have lots of fatties in your car which forces the suspension to have longer travel during operation, then the suspension will wear out sooner. VS if there is less weight and less travel, the suspension will probably to a certain degree last a bit longer.
Stiffer suspension (springs/dampeners/sways) will reduce the suspension's maxiumum travel somewhat... and during daily operation the travel is certainly reduced... sways reduce suspension travel during side to side body roll, shorter springs reduce the ride height, which also changes the neutral or resting point of the ball joints and bushings which could cause them to wear differently but being that it is a ball joint.... it is intended to have a given range of movement, the neutral point is irrelevant if in fact it is a BALL since a sphere is round is it not? Unless the suspension is maxing out the movement of said ball joints I dont see how it would really effect the joint itself, but maybe rather the boot that covers it to some extent... which could lead to dust/debris entering the joint... YET that still isnt how most arms fail... its the ball joint that wears out probably from poor lubrication... as it has been discussed and established that by installing zerk fittings to control arms can extend their lifespan by re-lubricating them with better grease before the old grease is junk and the ball joints start to become fatigued and worn from excessive cycles without lubrication.
In short, I believe that reducing the travel while the number of cycles of operation (bumps hit) remains the same probably wont adversely alter the lifespan of audi quad link suspension.
Its the ball joints on the outter ends that fail typically. I'm going to say no it really doesnt matter much, since the arms fail regularly on cars that have NO mods at all. As for lifespan of the arms... it might be reduced a little bit, but not by much... I'd say the weight of the vehicle is more important. If you have lots of fatties in your car which forces the suspension to have longer travel during operation, then the suspension will wear out sooner. VS if there is less weight and less travel, the suspension will probably to a certain degree last a bit longer.
Stiffer suspension (springs/dampeners/sways) will reduce the suspension's maxiumum travel somewhat... and during daily operation the travel is certainly reduced... sways reduce suspension travel during side to side body roll, shorter springs reduce the ride height, which also changes the neutral or resting point of the ball joints and bushings which could cause them to wear differently but being that it is a ball joint.... it is intended to have a given range of movement, the neutral point is irrelevant if in fact it is a BALL since a sphere is round is it not? Unless the suspension is maxing out the movement of said ball joints I dont see how it would really effect the joint itself, but maybe rather the boot that covers it to some extent... which could lead to dust/debris entering the joint... YET that still isnt how most arms fail... its the ball joint that wears out probably from poor lubrication... as it has been discussed and established that by installing zerk fittings to control arms can extend their lifespan by re-lubricating them with better grease before the old grease is junk and the ball joints start to become fatigued and worn from excessive cycles without lubrication.
In short, I believe that reducing the travel while the number of cycles of operation (bumps hit) remains the same probably wont adversely alter the lifespan of audi quad link suspension.
12-05-2004, 01:44 PM
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I dont agree on that
there isnt a day when I dont bill out control arms on completely stock audis at work... I dont feel that increasing spring rates will shorten lifespan of the ball joints.
The softer the springs are the more travel in degrees the arms must span per bump or road irregularity. If the suspension has less natural travel due to shorter springs and stiffer shocks, then the arms are not required to travel as far as frequently as they did with softer springs/dampeners.
The bushings might be stressed more with stiffer suspension, however its very rare that the bushings fail... its the ball joints that wear out first and begin to clunk or creak/squeak or make the front end feel loose.
The softer the springs are the more travel in degrees the arms must span per bump or road irregularity. If the suspension has less natural travel due to shorter springs and stiffer shocks, then the arms are not required to travel as far as frequently as they did with softer springs/dampeners.
The bushings might be stressed more with stiffer suspension, however its very rare that the bushings fail... its the ball joints that wear out first and begin to clunk or creak/squeak or make the front end feel loose.
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12-05-2004, 01:59 PM
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in NH we have yearly safty inspection....
and some of the worst roads in the country. in that my suspension pieces are inspected as a matter of law and not just because of costomer complaints of noise. i feel my data is more emperical.
12-05-2004, 02:11 PM
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thats 1 example.... I see hundreds of examples a year.
I have a bit more experience than you with control arms. Being that I am an audi parts consultant, I know the control arms by part number, thats how frequently I sell them. I go out and examine audis on lifts every day... I have seen a hell of a lot of bad control arms and bad tie rod ends. I also get to see how many miles the cars have and what condition the rest of the car is in.
I am not speaking only from personal experience on my b5... but experience with all audis with quad link suspension.
NJ/NY roads are not exactly the best this country has to offer either. Naturally the worse the roads are the shorter the lifespan of the control arms since the worse the roads the more cycles the arms are put through in a given distance (miles/km). That much is only logical. I would expect NH roads kill arms and tie rod ends quicker than anyplace else.
I am not speaking only from personal experience on my b5... but experience with all audis with quad link suspension.
NJ/NY roads are not exactly the best this country has to offer either. Naturally the worse the roads are the shorter the lifespan of the control arms since the worse the roads the more cycles the arms are put through in a given distance (miles/km). That much is only logical. I would expect NH roads kill arms and tie rod ends quicker than anyplace else.