Paging Audi Junkie: Mobil1 EP 15K oil
08-05-2008, 08:06 AM
#11
5w-40's pretty much fine in that regard, but TDT's notably thick<0f.Run TDT/Rotella in everything
Rotella Synth is pretty popular in GM applications. You could/should just use dino oil (which is as good as synth of just 5-10 years ago) in the vehicles that take it, unless they burn oil, have high oil temps or towing. Yep, then a 5w-40 is desired. A UOA on dino after rough duty should clarify that for you. Hard to do much except speculate w/o it. Again, Pennzoil or Havoline in that regard, about the same serviceability as plain Mobil 1, I **** you not.
As for the A4, you know what to do. Check your oil temps, go to a online visc calc (like shellglobalsolutions/toolbox) punch in the operating temp and the +100c cSt visc of your oil and if the oil's visc is down into the sae 20 range (less than 10cSt @+100c), you need a thicker oil, an oil cooler or whatever to adjust that. Real race cars have oversize sumps and use Mobil 1 "R" 0w-30, 0w-30 with extra zink.
As for TDT specificly, you know the VW specs call for a +150c HT/HS visc of >3.5cP, meaning a 40 weight (about 14cSt) or thick 30 (about 12cSt) at +100C. A 50 weight ranges to 17cSt at +100C and +150C HT/HT of approx 4.5cP. So, my point about TDT is that it's a diesel HD 5w-40 with HT/HT of 4.1cP, beyond VW specs already and higher than a "plain" "Euro" 5w-40 like Syntec or Motul. People are getting mixed results on Motul and you know I hate Syntec 5w-40. (try GC in winter)
So with a diesel HD 5w-40, like Rotella or TDT, you are *already* getting extra HT/HS that comes into play on the track. If you are thinking 50 weight, 5w-50, ask John at Woodlawn why he stocks drums of it. he runs like 23lbs boost in his Ur-S6 and swears that track cars blow up on Mobil 1 15w-50 (the RedCap, which is actually better than the new stuff) and those same cars do fine on Syntec 5w-50. He actually switched to Valvoline VR-1 20w-50, but does not do UOAs and/or oil tech like I do.
As for the A4, you know what to do. Check your oil temps, go to a online visc calc (like shellglobalsolutions/toolbox) punch in the operating temp and the +100c cSt visc of your oil and if the oil's visc is down into the sae 20 range (less than 10cSt @+100c), you need a thicker oil, an oil cooler or whatever to adjust that. Real race cars have oversize sumps and use Mobil 1 "R" 0w-30, 0w-30 with extra zink.
As for TDT specificly, you know the VW specs call for a +150c HT/HS visc of >3.5cP, meaning a 40 weight (about 14cSt) or thick 30 (about 12cSt) at +100C. A 50 weight ranges to 17cSt at +100C and +150C HT/HT of approx 4.5cP. So, my point about TDT is that it's a diesel HD 5w-40 with HT/HT of 4.1cP, beyond VW specs already and higher than a "plain" "Euro" 5w-40 like Syntec or Motul. People are getting mixed results on Motul and you know I hate Syntec 5w-40. (try GC in winter)
So with a diesel HD 5w-40, like Rotella or TDT, you are *already* getting extra HT/HS that comes into play on the track. If you are thinking 50 weight, 5w-50, ask John at Woodlawn why he stocks drums of it. he runs like 23lbs boost in his Ur-S6 and swears that track cars blow up on Mobil 1 15w-50 (the RedCap, which is actually better than the new stuff) and those same cars do fine on Syntec 5w-50. He actually switched to Valvoline VR-1 20w-50, but does not do UOAs and/or oil tech like I do.
08-05-2008, 08:50 AM
#12
Once again, great info. So, if I'm not going to use M1 5w40 Truck in my A4, then Syntec 5w50.
And, as long as it's +0F, no need to change down to M1 0w40 or the like for winter months. I have seen the M1 0w30 "R" oil at a local parts supplier -- not ready for something like that since this is still a DD. I want to do an external oil cooler, but I may just do the S4 upgrade soon for now. I need to finish FMIC pipes before an oil cooler can be fab'ed.
And, in my tow vehicle/wife's SUV, it sounds as if I need to test its current oil. but, it's due in <300 miles, so there's no time. And, I don't care if it has that new idiot oil calculator that says the oil still has +80% of its life left at almost 3k miles. I just can't believe that... without testing it via Blackstone. So, what oil would you suggest for it? maybe just put in 5w30 dino oil in again, test the current stuff and make a better decision at 33k. But, I can't see how running the M1 5w40 for 5k would hurt anything in that engine considering it's a better oil, right? Then, check that at 35k. I should dig up my user/password on that Bob's oil site.
And, in my tow vehicle/wife's SUV, it sounds as if I need to test its current oil. but, it's due in <300 miles, so there's no time. And, I don't care if it has that new idiot oil calculator that says the oil still has +80% of its life left at almost 3k miles. I just can't believe that... without testing it via Blackstone. So, what oil would you suggest for it? maybe just put in 5w30 dino oil in again, test the current stuff and make a better decision at 33k. But, I can't see how running the M1 5w40 for 5k would hurt anything in that engine considering it's a better oil, right? Then, check that at 35k. I should dig up my user/password on that Bob's oil site.
08-05-2008, 05:30 PM
#14
The GM OLM is notoriously liberal, my Honda drops 10% every 1k mi. I'd stick w/dino at 5k.
I honestly would not buy synth for my Honda if I had to go to the store and purchase it. It's not the extra $10, it's the fact I like changing my oil every 3 months (6-8k). If I was trying to go 4 months, I'd use synth. The difference is that minimal. imo, dino oil is a bargain for how good it is and definately cost/ effective.
Say, it would be fair to want to go 2x longer on synth costing 2 times as much (when it actually costs more like 3x as much). So, 6k on dino or 12k on synth??? I say you get a better result with twice as many changes of dino as far as deposit control goes....overall cleanliness. Again, I don't mind changeing oil....an exotic car driven by a suit-wearer...a different story.
Dino is made for GM and GM is made for dino. lol, but maybe the GM OLM is more "accurate" if used with good synth. fwiw, I change when my OLM hits 40% (50% actual). Don't worry about the towing thing unless you do a UOA and see excess wear. Search at Bob's UOA Forum for the same engine results as a guideline. If you get excess wear, try a thicker oil, 10w-40. Synth does nothing in itself to help with wear. There are a lot of factors, inc additive chemistry and engine metalurgy. Also, with a GM it's always worth doing a UOA to look for coolant leaks from the IMG. I'd be more concerned with the trans fluid, Dex VI is the new stuff and it's quite good. Worth the effort to swap it in.
It's about personal choice as far as type of oil. Super-cold climate and desired length of extended service are the only two reasons to choose synth in a n/a engine. I usually say to pick the desired service length first to select and oil. imo (again) that means going through the entire winter without doing a change in the cold. (can you tell I don't have a garage and do EVERYTHING outside?) So if you go 8-9k from Dec-Mar, ok...synth it is.
For your car with the specific output/power density, and I think you have too big of an investment to screw around with anything less than heavy 40s, like TDT or the POTENT M1 10w-40 HM (built like a race oil). If in doubt, try the Syntec 5w-50, John will sell you some, but BigLots has it $15/g. I can even grab some for you if you need or want to stock up.
Remember too, all 5w oils are not the same in cold. The test protocols allow progressively more cranking resistance for a 5w-20, 5w-30, 5w-40, 5w-50, but all are tested at -25f (iirc).
Say, it would be fair to want to go 2x longer on synth costing 2 times as much (when it actually costs more like 3x as much). So, 6k on dino or 12k on synth??? I say you get a better result with twice as many changes of dino as far as deposit control goes....overall cleanliness. Again, I don't mind changeing oil....an exotic car driven by a suit-wearer...a different story.
Dino is made for GM and GM is made for dino. lol, but maybe the GM OLM is more "accurate" if used with good synth. fwiw, I change when my OLM hits 40% (50% actual). Don't worry about the towing thing unless you do a UOA and see excess wear. Search at Bob's UOA Forum for the same engine results as a guideline. If you get excess wear, try a thicker oil, 10w-40. Synth does nothing in itself to help with wear. There are a lot of factors, inc additive chemistry and engine metalurgy. Also, with a GM it's always worth doing a UOA to look for coolant leaks from the IMG. I'd be more concerned with the trans fluid, Dex VI is the new stuff and it's quite good. Worth the effort to swap it in.
It's about personal choice as far as type of oil. Super-cold climate and desired length of extended service are the only two reasons to choose synth in a n/a engine. I usually say to pick the desired service length first to select and oil. imo (again) that means going through the entire winter without doing a change in the cold. (can you tell I don't have a garage and do EVERYTHING outside?) So if you go 8-9k from Dec-Mar, ok...synth it is.
For your car with the specific output/power density, and I think you have too big of an investment to screw around with anything less than heavy 40s, like TDT or the POTENT M1 10w-40 HM (built like a race oil). If in doubt, try the Syntec 5w-50, John will sell you some, but BigLots has it $15/g. I can even grab some for you if you need or want to stock up.
Remember too, all 5w oils are not the same in cold. The test protocols allow progressively more cranking resistance for a 5w-20, 5w-30, 5w-40, 5w-50, but all are tested at -25f (iirc).
08-06-2008, 05:26 AM
#15
I couldn't dino for 5k. I barely feel good about letting my A4 go 5k with M1, but Blackstone report
after report have been fine sans Lead. fwiw, my best oil temps have been Motul V300 Motorsports 5w40, but it was $$$$ and it looked/poured like olive oil. (Blackstone report in my PP) What's BigLots? I would definitely buy/use the Castrol Syntec 5w50 for $15/g. I have 4qts left of M1 5w40 for my 110k change (about to turn 109k), so I'm good until 115k.
hhmmm... sounds as if I might just do whatever deal the local auto parts supplier is doing for dino oil + filter for ~$25 for the GM/Saab engine and do 3k changes. It is 7 qts, after all. yeah, before I use it as a tow vehicle, I do plan to change the trans fluid.
and, yeah, I remember my outside car work days... in college, I would drive my Accord onto the curb of the driveway to change the oil. If I needed to get it higher, I would put a brick or two in teh street for the other tire. yeah, that's safe, eh?
hhmmm... sounds as if I might just do whatever deal the local auto parts supplier is doing for dino oil + filter for ~$25 for the GM/Saab engine and do 3k changes. It is 7 qts, after all. yeah, before I use it as a tow vehicle, I do plan to change the trans fluid.
and, yeah, I remember my outside car work days... in college, I would drive my Accord onto the curb of the driveway to change the oil. If I needed to get it higher, I would put a brick or two in teh street for the other tire. yeah, that's safe, eh?
08-06-2008, 08:15 AM
#16
5000 is the new 3000, srsly.Look at Mobil's "Clean" line = 5000, 7500 etc.Big Lots = discount outlet
Overall, I'd use the TDT in winter and M1 10w-40 Hi-Miles in summer/track. UOA the M1, I don't think there are any done so far with the 10w-40. I guarantee good results.
Syntec 5w-50 is just fine too. I know the awesome PPG M3 Racer uses it in place of the TSW Motorsports Castrol 10w-60, and they could use anything.
For the truck, pick a time interval and go with that, 3-4 times a year, I guess. Funk the mileage. Really. Your manual probally calls for 5000 miles for severe use. I'd Auto-Rx the bisch too.
All different engines are more or less hard on oil. Hondas are very easy and GM tends to be easy too. 5000-6000 is a breeze on dino.<ul><li><a href="http://www.biglots.com/store_locator_adv.aspx">http://www.biglots.com/store_locator_adv.aspx</a</li></ul>
Syntec 5w-50 is just fine too. I know the awesome PPG M3 Racer uses it in place of the TSW Motorsports Castrol 10w-60, and they could use anything.
For the truck, pick a time interval and go with that, 3-4 times a year, I guess. Funk the mileage. Really. Your manual probally calls for 5000 miles for severe use. I'd Auto-Rx the bisch too.
All different engines are more or less hard on oil. Hondas are very easy and GM tends to be easy too. 5000-6000 is a breeze on dino.<ul><li><a href="http://www.biglots.com/store_locator_adv.aspx">http://www.biglots.com/store_locator_adv.aspx</a</li></ul>
08-06-2008, 10:01 AM
#18
I guess you know high lead = too low visc (or too hot). Try Pennzoil Platinum 15w-50 from PepBoys
as an extreme measure. I bet that would drop the bearing wear. I stopped by the BigLots next to Autozone here, no Syntec 5w-50, but a big space cleared out in the automotive isle. If you go that route, just call ahead first.
I know PepBoys carries the PP 15w-50, I've seen it there.
If you wanted to try older SL rated "Red Cap" M1 15w-50, be my guest, but avoid the EP or SM version.
I know PepBoys carries the PP 15w-50, I've seen it there.
If you wanted to try older SL rated "Red Cap" M1 15w-50, be my guest, but avoid the EP or SM version.
08-07-2008, 08:29 AM
#19
yeah, which is why I stopped using M1 0w40 namely with APR stage 3
since it appeared that the engine was too hot with being just chipped (and going to the track). That's what initiated my quest for something better under high temps to lower them, but still be good for winter starts. I never have had the M1 5w40 tested, but I assume it must be better (per your info, namely).
I think an oil cooler would solve everything, but, until then, I'm trying to find a "fix" oil to use. I think the CS 5w50 might be it.
I think an oil cooler would solve everything, but, until then, I'm trying to find a "fix" oil to use. I think the CS 5w50 might be it.