Conker

I put a $300 deposit down about two months ago, and the dealer told me he thought several people ahead of me would "fizzle" out and cancel. Now, he will not tell me exactly where I am in the waiting order! That's fine. I am certain I will get an S4 from somewhere. I am not concerned at this point with actually getting one of the cars. However, I will NOT order a car until I have a price. I kept thinking that the price would emerge by the time ordering could take place, but it hasn't. I will not turn my order in for now, even though I'm confident the price will be acceptable. It is the principle to me. I am not upset that the price is not out, because the car is still a distance from production. What upsets me is having to turn in an order before that time. Referring to basic economics... you find price at the point where supply meets demand. I don't want to be "handled" while this equilibrium is "floating". <p>To my dealer: Buzz me when you have a price.<br>i feel better now.<br>Conker 98 1.8TS-tip TAP .8

Loreon

... more importantly, most of us seem to agree that audi is taking a wait and see approach with the price. Audi's waiting until the demand turns into a real frenzy and then they will price the car according to the maximum that they estimate the market will tollerate. Disgusting in my opinion but some here have judged this cynical thining and thought Audi's "smart" people were on a much higher plain. <p>There has been at least one posting recently that said that some areas have plenty of TT's sitting around their lots. How could that be when all I have heard from the dealers is that they have all been pre-sold? Perhaps the potential clients did not like the final price anymore than the S4 clients will (whatever that will be). With any luck, we will have our pick of S4's at much more reasonable prices much like the TT buyers will very shortly. I am not really holding my breath but it can happen - I hope.

Dank

Just like nobody knows the 2000 A4 prices, there is no reason to assume anyone will know the 2000 S4 prices. Your deposit is just a deposit, and it is still refundable, even if you special order your car. You know the range. You know what to expect. I have not seen any estimates outside the $38-45k range (base/loaded), and if you are dropping that amount on a car, +/- a few thousand isn't going to hurt you.<p>Like I said in the previous forum, when I ordered my 98 A4, it was before the 98s were out, and so I didn't have a set price, but rather an amount under MSRP. Everyone ordering an S4 is getting an amount under MSRP (sure, its zero, but still..). I see no difference.

vik

That's the definition of capitalism, my friend. Why should Audi charge a dime less than the market will bear? If I make a pot, and Joe will pay me $2.00 for that pot because he wants it that badly, I guarantee I won't sell it to Jane for $1.50, unless Jane is really cute. <p>In all the "Negotiating For Dummies"-type books, they tell you to never make the first offer. Why? Because you're waiting to see if the other guy's perception of the item's value is lower than yours. If we assume that Audi is "waiting until the demand turns into a real frenzy" to price the car, hell, I call that smart business.<p>Personally, though, I'm not even ready to concede that that is what they're doing. I don't know enough about the new-car rollout process to definitively say that that is the only possible scenario at this point. Maybe they haven't nailed down costs from a U.S. supplier yet. Maybe they're not sure what the additional production will do to their plant's fixed costs. I'm pulling this stuff out of thin air, of course, but my point is that neither you nor I *know* what the situation is, so why create so much negative energy by assuming the worst?<p><br>-vik<br>99.5 1.8tqms

MPM

Actually, it drove me to this site, where there seems to be better information (and pictures) then my dealer can deliver. Anyway to get something directly from Germany? Can carbon fiber be installed instead of wood?<p>The real issue I have to resolve is will I grab for the S4 keys in the morning, or will I keep putting daily (Boston) commuter milage on my '87 911 Cab. I have a perfectly maintained 87 1/2 Coupe GT with 205,000 on the clock without a lick of trouble (still on the original clutch). Is the S4 the worthy sucessor, or is there something else?

Loreon

I like your positive attitude Vik. I am just trying to generate an atmosphere where more than one person will voice his/her dissatisfaction with how Audi has handled this entire roll out process. If it filters up to Audi, perhaps they will a) smarten up and announce the price, b) tell their dealers to quite being such horses asses and stop taking orders for cars which are in such a state of flux (coming/not coming/start of the year/end of the year), and c) realize that buyers are getting smarter thus fewer and fewer are willing to purchase on hype alone. <p>This way, we all win. Good cars at reasonable prices. Don't you think that's smart business from our(consumer) side. After all, business is a two way transaction and who says only Audi gets to be smart!<p>Don't know if anyone with any real decision/influence at AoA is reading anything on this site, but certainly some of the most enthusiastic and informed Audi consumers are. If we all voice our concerns strongly and often enough there is a chance that this will filter up to the right people at Audi and thing may begin to change. <p>Of course, I could just be wasting my time. If I've got to wait for my S4 then I prefer to spend the time talking to people about how we can all get better deals rather than just humbly resigning ourselves to fait. <p>So, Vik, with all due respect and no flame intended, stop telling me what I should or should not accept. You are not the only one who is well acquainted with market dynamics. <p>Cheers.

Loreon

I am not concerned about my deposit. I know it is refundable at a moment's notice. What I do care about is that few thousand you mentioned. For a few thousand one could take a family in a new S4 on a nice road trip for a week or so and stay at some very nice places while enjoying the time together.<p>Now, would I rather the dealer go on that trip with my few thousand or would I prefer it was me and my wife and kids? What would you choose.<p>Priorities, man. Priorities.<p>Besides, when millionaires like Trump and Forbes and Buffet write books like "The Art of the Steal" and similar topics, don't you think it behouves the rest of us to learn something from those lessons. I know I am certainly not in their league and although those few thousand won't break me, I will feel much better if I don't just hand them over to some dealer who'll offer me lots of promises, bad coffee and lousy service.<p>Just my take on the matter.

vik

<i>"stop telling me what I should or should not accept"</i> -- I haven't yet done so, nor would I dream of doing so. But I'm splitting hairs here, it's not really an important point.<p>I'm actually more of a pessimist than you -- as much as I love this site, I doubt that a4.org is quite powerful enough to generate a groundswell of opinion that would influence Audi's behavior.<p>That said, I respect the fact that you're trying, and even though I disagree with some of your viewpoints, I understand where you're coming from. Carry on, good sir...<p><br>-vik<br>99.5 1.8tqms

Jon

"tell their dealers to quite being such<br>horses asses and stop taking orders for cars which are in such a state of flux (coming/not coming/start of the year/end of the year)" is a fair assessment of most of the dealers, but I do know (well, my sales rep told me and he is a great firend) that Audi gave the dealerships a tight deadline to get the orders back in (like one week) or else they wouldn't get their allotment. So, it isn't that the dealers are holding this up. They don't know the prices, AoA is making them rush this along and holding their allotment over their heads.<p>I still think it is BS to expect me to just agree to an undetermined price. Hence, no S4 for me (til they are used!).<p>Jon <br>'96 A4q

Loreon

... but the good ones are so few and far between. You are fortunate.<p>As for Audi pressuring the dealers. That may well be the case but what do you suppose would happen if a significant enough number of dealers went back to Audi and said, look, people are interested but are not willing to book orders because not enough price/delivery info is available.<p>I know that the time for that has passed and it's probably too much to hope for in any case. <p>Guess we all just wait and see what happens....<p>