Tommy

I posted a message yesterday afternoon about being frustrated as I decide what new car to buy. I stated that I thought the 1.8T Quattro was underpowered for it's weight, and that I was willing to pay out the extra $4000 to get the 2.8 until I heard about a lack of torque at low to mid RPM's. <p>Yes, I drove the 1.8T FWD and the 1.8T Quattro (both manuals), but haven't driven the 2.8 yet. I will soon. But don't get me going on test drives. Conditions are always varied (fat salemen, skinny saleswomen, weather, traffic....) and the drives aren't long enough to make a solid comparison. A week may not even be enough time.<p>What I keep hearing and reading is that the 1.8T is more "sporty" and the 2.8 is more for "luxury". OK, I admit the characteristics of the engines support those desciprions. However, real world conditions DO NOT. I think that a car that can go 0-60 a full second faster would be the "sportier" car (the 2.8). And while I'm on the subject of acceleration times, I should say that all along I knew there was something fishy about indentical 0-60 times between FWD and AWD models. Anyone who's taken any basic Physics class would say that there's more to this. So I went to the library last night and did the research. C&D said the 1.8Tqms does 0-60 in 8.4 seconds. All of the other cars in the test lagged behind the A4 up until 30mph and then blew by it up until 130mph. Why? Because Quattro along with it's low gear ratios allow it to smoke off the line. But eventually that additional 230 pounds and additional drivetrain friction slow the car down greatly. The most telling acceleration numbers are the rolling 5-60 numbers. The A4 was WAY BEHIND the pack coming in with a 9.9 seconds. I looked at other road tests to see just how slow this 1.8 Quattro really is. Let's just say the weak Mazda Protege was almost a second quicker from a rolling start.<br>And the 1.8Tqms passing times were horrendous as well. 150 hp is not adequate for a 3100 lb SPORTS sedan. Don't get me wrong. I LOVE QUATTRO. But I HATE it's additional weight and drivetrain friction. It's just not worth it in the 1.8T. I'll have to drive the 2.8 to see if the same is true. But with ASR, it may also be better without. Oh, and I'm against chipping (more boost, more heat = shorter engine life). As far as RESALE goes. I keep cars for a long time, and I've never made money on a car before. I buy stock funds for RESALE value. And as far as this whole "why buy an Audi without Quattro" stuff. What? Name me a better sports sedan than either FWD A4 for under 30 grand. I'd love to know.<p>Tommy (can you hear me?)

Andrew C.

Much of the Sport vs Luxury comes from interior stying not stock accel. times, I think. Wood &amp; leather (luxo) for 2.8 vs Aluminum trim (sporto) for 1.8.

GaryJ

I went from a 5.0 Mustang to my 5 speed 30V V-6. The Audi is much slower. If you want to go fast, buy the DOHC Mustang Cobra (I think a pretty good car for what you get compared to what you pay). For me, there is no other car that can compare to my Audi. The quattro rocks. Rained yesterday in SoCal (SNOW SNOW SNOW in Mammouth, oops I digress). In SoCal, when it rains, it usually hasn't for a couple of months so there's lots of oil on the road as well as water. The A4 stuck like glue. I love it.<p>I'm not into 0-60 runs in real life, or even the 5-60 MPH runs. All I can tell you that when the revs on my 2.8 are between 3,000 and redline, I have a bigger grin on my face than I ever did with the mustang (which I still have, but have not driven in 6 weeks thanks to my Audi). These are my observations. I don't care if a protege or V6 accord or whatever is faster, the Audi 2.8 ROCKS. IT'S AWESOME. THE BEST.

ErikR

Your title says it all: The A4 is all about balance. There are plenty of car that exceed the A4 in any one area. The A4 masters the balance. The quattro is for enthusiasts, and it makes life in the snow and ice belt livable.<p>Cars are emotional choices. I can always walk. If you don't want quattro: DON"T BUY IT.<p>The 1.8tqms is a very sporty family car. The gearing and suspension are perfect IMHO. The six is a very nice engine, but is is not particularly modifiable, sucks gas, and weighs almost 300lbs more than the 1.8 (in exactly the wrong location).<p>C and D is a lousy source of information, although better than MTrend. I much prefer the R and T discussions for accuracy. How about downshifting before the pass?! Top gear for some cars, 5th and 4th for others, nice comparo.<p>The chip decision is your own as well, but eliminates a very effective and SAFE means of providing the power you demand (try the archives for 2 years of this straw argument).<p>Good luck with your choice.

chrisd

I wrestled with the same problem you have...i started desiring the 1.8 stripped down outside of quattro and sport packge & seats...slowly I migrated through the 2.8's an ended up buying an Avant QMS w/ everthing but the winter pkg & trip.<p>Maybe its b/c I am not in my twenty's (it seems that many 1.8 owners are all in 20's - I'm 31), or maybe I wanted a smoth V6 and the leather option afetr driving 4-bangers, turbos and non-turbos all my life. (really, the v6 makes me feel more like an adult) <p>One thing I can tell you is that this puppy boogies from 50 - 90 in smooth surge of power with plenty left. i am doubtful that the 1.8 can perform similarly. However, the 1.8 will feel quite fast off the line whereas the 2.8's first gear really feels like it belongs in a truck. After 1st, it's like butter and very satisfying. Throw in the quattro and you have a real corner hugger at high and low speeds.<p>the 2.8 is definitely luxurious in comparisn to the 1.8, and I also believe it is as sporty, if not more. <p>To each his own... but, imho, spend the coin...step up to a loaded 2.8 qms and you will excruciatingly happy(unless of course you prefer to modify your auto's).

IronMike

My FWD A4 stuck like glue too here in rainy So Cal

chrisd

hey, are you guys getting together in Newport Beach in a couple of weeks...since I live there I think I must if I'm in town...where is it and what's the process? tx (nt) :+)

jbm

I have had the same problems and have ordered a A4 1.8tqm.The A4 six cylinder was never an option to me "can't afford it".My only other choice was a BMW 323I which after driving I liked the Audi better.It took me 4 test drives by myself before making my final decision.Two of the test drives were on rainy days and I have never driven a car that fast and stable in the rain.I kept on pushing and the car never once scared me.Each test dive got better and better always ending with a big grin.I do not even go by the BMW store any longer and am comfortable with my decision.

John

Tommy:<br>I understand your difficult decision. The good news, you have already made the right decisoin: you are looking at the A4. After that, the I-4T or the V6, FWD or AWD, leather or cloth, sport or no, etc. is all gravy and really a matter of your personal taste.<br>Remember when people on the board favor one option or another, that we really can't be objective. People tend to like what they bought (a lot). For instance, you will not see too many people say "I really hate that I got the quattro", or "I wish I hadn't spent the extra money for this fine 30V v6 enguine". We all mave spend 30K or so for "our configuration" A4, we'd better like it. So, the people who feel "sporty" may go after the "sporty" A4, the 1.8T. And once they do, they'll tell you this is the way to go. But in reality, the differences are not large, unless you have a particular need in mind. Like "I wanna chip to 20+ hp" (1.8T) or "I never leave southern California" (FWD).<br>What is my opinion? 1) You really should strongly consider the quattro. It's the best 1600 you can spend and the system is awesome. The Passat buyers are crying because they are still waiting for it. 2) Get the sport package and the sport seats, well worth it if you like that tigh, rough ride approach. 3) Get the 30V V6 if you can. You won't regret it. Plenty of smooth power for mere mortals.<br>By the way, my A4 is a 30V V6 with quattro and sport, but you might have already guessed that. You really can't go wrong at this point.<br>Cheers.

Tony

It seems that the main reason that you are purchasing a car is performance. The Audi might not have the best performance numbers but there is much more to the A4 than performance. If performance is your Number one Criteria the Audi might not be for you. Before I purchased the Audi, I owned a 1995 Mitsubishi Eclipse GSX Turbo AWD. I used to try and race everybody on the road. Although I liked the A4 it was underpowered (172HP for 199612v). I test drove the 30 V, which was fast, but not as fast as the Mitsu. My main criteria for a car at that time were 0-60 times. Then I matured. I purchased a 1.8QTM. I don't miss the extra power although I'm considering a chip. The Audi isn't slow, In was able to maintain a 4 car length lead on a 1998 Lexus ES300, he wasn't able to pass (yea, I still race sometimes). The Lexus is rated at 200 HP, Go figure. 0-60 and passing numbers are sometimes misleading in the real world. When you base your decision on 0-60 times that might be the only thing that the car has to offer. <p>P.S. It never seems like I'm driving an underpowered car on the road. My A4 is quicker than the average car and will dust all of the SUVs.<br>