Talking about big turbo's.....long.
01-09-2004, 08:19 AM
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Talking about big turbo's.....long.
So if I understand this correctly, APR's stage III+ is most likely to be a GT28RS. So, say you buy a current GT28 stage III set up from APR, and later want to move on to the RS.
1. Optimization of the RS would mean more software modification right? Whether it would be extensive code modification or a tweaking of the current code I would think it would be quite a wait based on APR taking as much time as needed to provide the quality current and future stage III owners expect. And would the manifold need to change? I doubt it, but the science of it all is beyond me.
2. Which code would be written first NDBW? DBW? I would suspect NDBW as there are more out there, and it's most likely a bit easier, but I'm wondering if that may change as more DBW owners are getting solid programming now.
-This issue is important to me because I am trying to understand the differences between the ATP hardware/Revo software design, and what I feel to be the superior APR "kit". As I have yet to see conclusive evidence stating R&D of the stage III+ has officially begun, I foresee a long wait for APR to start turning out the product.
3. As I understand it, stage III+ would be optimized for use with an intercooler. How would that issue be dealt with when using the ATP design, or any other design for that matter? Isn't the ATP design supposed to be partnered with a semi stand alone set up or Revo software? That alone is enough to turn me off on that product. If I was to take my car that far, I would want the RS program optimized with "built in" programming for a specific intercooler. I understand some people want the opportunity to push it a bit farther that what the tuners give us, but I don't have any inclination to blow up my car.
1. Optimization of the RS would mean more software modification right? Whether it would be extensive code modification or a tweaking of the current code I would think it would be quite a wait based on APR taking as much time as needed to provide the quality current and future stage III owners expect. And would the manifold need to change? I doubt it, but the science of it all is beyond me.
2. Which code would be written first NDBW? DBW? I would suspect NDBW as there are more out there, and it's most likely a bit easier, but I'm wondering if that may change as more DBW owners are getting solid programming now.
-This issue is important to me because I am trying to understand the differences between the ATP hardware/Revo software design, and what I feel to be the superior APR "kit". As I have yet to see conclusive evidence stating R&D of the stage III+ has officially begun, I foresee a long wait for APR to start turning out the product.
3. As I understand it, stage III+ would be optimized for use with an intercooler. How would that issue be dealt with when using the ATP design, or any other design for that matter? Isn't the ATP design supposed to be partnered with a semi stand alone set up or Revo software? That alone is enough to turn me off on that product. If I was to take my car that far, I would want the RS program optimized with "built in" programming for a specific intercooler. I understand some people want the opportunity to push it a bit farther that what the tuners give us, but I don't have any inclination to blow up my car.
01-09-2004, 08:28 AM
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My WAG . .
The DBW will be first as there are more folks at APR who can and do program DBW than nDBW and DBW offers tuners more tools with which to tune (Motronic differences). There are also more transverse DBW kits than any others IMO.
Swapping to a GT28RS will not require changing the manifold as the two turbos are very similar. It will require new software to take full advantage of the disco potato. With the advent of Vtune (APR's recently announced tuning software) you will be able to fine tune for what ever IC arrangement you opt for.
Swapping to a GT28RS will not require changing the manifold as the two turbos are very similar. It will require new software to take full advantage of the disco potato. With the advent of Vtune (APR's recently announced tuning software) you will be able to fine tune for what ever IC arrangement you opt for.
01-09-2004, 08:35 AM
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long winded response....
Yes, I believe the Stage III+ is the RS...not positive though
"1. Optimization of the RS would mean more software modification right?"
- Yes, different airflows and geometry = different tuning. The only reason I think it would take a while is that APR seems to take a long @ss time with everything. It would simply be tweaking current values to the optimal tuned values that can be slapped on everybody's car safely. The way that parameters are manipulated is already figured out.
2. I would say they would be close to each other on release dates. Prolly nDBW first though. Depends on where the demand is a I guess. I dunno, thats a business decision for APR to make. They'll work on the kit that will make them the most money first.
-Take everything posted and stated on websites for what they are worth...internet posts and nothing more. Every tuner has something in the works always...There are varying opinions over what kit is "superior" and I don't want to start another one of those battles. I believe timeslips and dyno charts.
"3. As I understand it, stage III+ would be optimized for use with an intercooler. How would that issue be dealt with when using the ATP design, or any other design for that matter?"
-On any larger turbo, an FMIC is definitely an advantage. You can heat soak the SMIC pretty quickly with just a K04 or even a K03. An FMIC is not really kit specific, and most people you talk to would recommend an FMIC with ANY larger turbo you put on...ATP or APR doesn't matter.
"Isn't the ATP design supposed to be partnered with a semi stand alone set up or Revo software? That alone is enough to turn me off on that product. If I was to take my car that far, I would want the RS program optimized with "built in" programming for a specific intercooler. I understand some people want the opportunity to push it a bit farther that what the tuners give us, but I don't have any inclination to blow up my car"
- See I want exactly the opposite...I'd want to buy hardware and an ECU tuner so I can do ALL the tuning myself and have NO programming. But to each his own. If you just want "bolt on" and go...a kit that comes with software is definitely where you want to go
"1. Optimization of the RS would mean more software modification right?"
- Yes, different airflows and geometry = different tuning. The only reason I think it would take a while is that APR seems to take a long @ss time with everything. It would simply be tweaking current values to the optimal tuned values that can be slapped on everybody's car safely. The way that parameters are manipulated is already figured out.
2. I would say they would be close to each other on release dates. Prolly nDBW first though. Depends on where the demand is a I guess. I dunno, thats a business decision for APR to make. They'll work on the kit that will make them the most money first.
-Take everything posted and stated on websites for what they are worth...internet posts and nothing more. Every tuner has something in the works always...There are varying opinions over what kit is "superior" and I don't want to start another one of those battles. I believe timeslips and dyno charts.
"3. As I understand it, stage III+ would be optimized for use with an intercooler. How would that issue be dealt with when using the ATP design, or any other design for that matter?"
-On any larger turbo, an FMIC is definitely an advantage. You can heat soak the SMIC pretty quickly with just a K04 or even a K03. An FMIC is not really kit specific, and most people you talk to would recommend an FMIC with ANY larger turbo you put on...ATP or APR doesn't matter.
"Isn't the ATP design supposed to be partnered with a semi stand alone set up or Revo software? That alone is enough to turn me off on that product. If I was to take my car that far, I would want the RS program optimized with "built in" programming for a specific intercooler. I understand some people want the opportunity to push it a bit farther that what the tuners give us, but I don't have any inclination to blow up my car"
- See I want exactly the opposite...I'd want to buy hardware and an ECU tuner so I can do ALL the tuning myself and have NO programming. But to each his own. If you just want "bolt on" and go...a kit that comes with software is definitely where you want to go
01-09-2004, 08:36 AM
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maybe...
don't know the geometry of the compressor housing. Injector sizes could probably stay the same. If anything you may need to adjust fuel pressure. Larger injectors come with a S3 correct?
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01-09-2004, 08:41 AM
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Correct . .
Added fuel likely could be accomplished with rail pressure and or pump swaps but Pete is correct in stating that to optimize the set up the MAF and intake plumbing would want to go to the transverse 3" configuration.
"We've" been looking at this for a while
"We've" been looking at this for a while
