A warning to those giving advice about what things to get for our cars...
08-05-2002, 10:57 AM
#21
Yes you are, or were, in your first statement, which was wrong BTW. Pentosin CHF 11s is a synthetic
mineral hydraulic fluid. I suggest you re-read your manual, because no where in my manual does it say not to use hydraulic fluid, just not to use brake fluid in the hydraulic system (which is what it is after all..)
08-05-2002, 11:35 AM
#22
I hope your tracking this thread...
You know what dude, my car also says not to use hydraulic oil and you know what I use..., 11S.
99% of this ****ing board uses CHF-11S and have NO problems with thier power steering, ask those who dont use it and stick to "mineral oil". Go ahead. Before people caught on to using CHF-11S, Audi had a serious problem with power steering racks, can you remember that?... "YOU" obviously have no clue about this product or you wouldnt of asked the question in the first place. Look on the side of the can dude, all the Chemical Abstract Registry numbers are acceptable, even CAS names. Im not saying you have to use this ****, use what you want as its your car. Im posting information based on my personal experience and a majority of the others.
Pentosin has been flowing through my car since day one. Jack, the guy who owned the car before me used it as well as I use. Almost 7 years without a single problem, even after the torture I put it through. Using the 11S, I got into an accident and had to drive my ****ing car 20 miles DRY w/out ANY power steering fluid OR pressure in the system... Did I ever have a problem with my rack. NO. I will gladly say that I am sorry if I EVER see G200 or 80 be capable of something like that.. I dont care what you say or who says what, CHF-11S is the best thing your rack can drink. So you know what dude, before you go badmouthing me on a public message board, get **** straight yourself. First hand experience is worth more to me than what some "Porsche/VAG engineer" ,as you claim, has to say..
99% of this ****ing board uses CHF-11S and have NO problems with thier power steering, ask those who dont use it and stick to "mineral oil". Go ahead. Before people caught on to using CHF-11S, Audi had a serious problem with power steering racks, can you remember that?... "YOU" obviously have no clue about this product or you wouldnt of asked the question in the first place. Look on the side of the can dude, all the Chemical Abstract Registry numbers are acceptable, even CAS names. Im not saying you have to use this ****, use what you want as its your car. Im posting information based on my personal experience and a majority of the others.
Pentosin has been flowing through my car since day one. Jack, the guy who owned the car before me used it as well as I use. Almost 7 years without a single problem, even after the torture I put it through. Using the 11S, I got into an accident and had to drive my ****ing car 20 miles DRY w/out ANY power steering fluid OR pressure in the system... Did I ever have a problem with my rack. NO. I will gladly say that I am sorry if I EVER see G200 or 80 be capable of something like that.. I dont care what you say or who says what, CHF-11S is the best thing your rack can drink. So you know what dude, before you go badmouthing me on a public message board, get **** straight yourself. First hand experience is worth more to me than what some "Porsche/VAG engineer" ,as you claim, has to say..
08-05-2002, 11:54 AM
#24
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Yeah I am tracking this thread,
What is the steering power fluid I am supposed to use on my car, 96 2.8 12V. That is my question.
I got the post-answer that CHF-11s is not the correct fluid to use. That's all I claim to know.
My manual confirms I'm suppose to use what is directed, G00020.
If you use any kind of fluid that has been successful for you, congratulations. I hardly think that you're comparison between G whatever and CHF-11s is the least bit scientific, you've been using one type of oil since the beginning.
I also hardly think that 99% of the board members use what you say they do. how do you know this? Have you polled them? Where is the link?
How do you know 99% of the board members have had NO problems with their steering. Instead of blindly stating numbers as part of a macho display of power and arguementative stance, back it up.
Of course I do not know about the problems with the power steering racks, instead of a recounted lambasted counter attack about my lack of knowledge of this product try something a little more productive. I never said I KNOW this product or what it doews. I just asked somebody who DOES work on these cars, has rebuilt SEVERAL motors from death, and who I consider a knowledgeable resource on the matter, not a "dumbass" like you say. Next time you try to turn it around saying I'm bad mouthing you on a "public forum", check yourself first. NO WHERE DID I NAME YOU. YOU CAME OUT AND NAMED YOURSELF.
I got the post-answer that CHF-11s is not the correct fluid to use. That's all I claim to know.
My manual confirms I'm suppose to use what is directed, G00020.
If you use any kind of fluid that has been successful for you, congratulations. I hardly think that you're comparison between G whatever and CHF-11s is the least bit scientific, you've been using one type of oil since the beginning.
I also hardly think that 99% of the board members use what you say they do. how do you know this? Have you polled them? Where is the link?
How do you know 99% of the board members have had NO problems with their steering. Instead of blindly stating numbers as part of a macho display of power and arguementative stance, back it up.
Of course I do not know about the problems with the power steering racks, instead of a recounted lambasted counter attack about my lack of knowledge of this product try something a little more productive. I never said I KNOW this product or what it doews. I just asked somebody who DOES work on these cars, has rebuilt SEVERAL motors from death, and who I consider a knowledgeable resource on the matter, not a "dumbass" like you say. Next time you try to turn it around saying I'm bad mouthing you on a "public forum", check yourself first. NO WHERE DID I NAME YOU. YOU CAME OUT AND NAMED YOURSELF.
08-05-2002, 12:05 PM
#25
FOR THE RECORD... this is from a very reliable source for Audi Knowledge...
Mineral Oil for Hydraulic Power Steering/Brake System
Audi recommends using only a mineral oil based fluid for the hydraulic power steering/brake system. This is for the large reservoir mounted on the firewall to the left of the brake master cylinder (RHD).
Pentosin is the manufacturer for the Audi factory fluid part number G 002 000. The Audi 5000 up to the 1989 models used the Pentosin CHF 7.1, in 1989 they went to a Pentosin CHF 11S which is a synthetic version with an improved temperature range.
The Pentosin cans indicate that the CHF 7.1 and the CHF 11S should not be mixed together, although the Audi service bulletins listed below say it is ok to mix them. Best advice if you are unsure which fluid was used in your car, is to flush out the old fluid when you had the new version (CHF 7.1 or 11S)
A quick look at the Pentosin CHF 7.1 container (white colored metal container with green cap), and at the Pentosin CHF 11S, (green colored metal container with red cap) provided the following information.
Pentosin CHF 7.1
Hydraulic system mineral oil for level control systems, hydro pneumatic suspension, shock absorber, power steering. Range of operation, -40C to +100C, especially recommended for countries of cold climate. Close container after use. Very Important: Pentosin CHF 7.1 should not be mixed with Pentosin CHF 11S or any other hydraulic oil BMW Teile Nr: 81 22 9 407 549 Green Color fluid
Pentosin CHF 11S
Synthetic Oil for central hydraulic systems, level control, hydro pneumatic suspension, shock absorber, power steering. Range of operation: -40C to +130C, especially recommended for countries of cold climate. Close container after use. Very Important: Pentosin CHF 11S should not be mixed with Pentosin CHF 7.1 or any other hydraulic oil. BMW Teile Nr: 81 22 9 407 758 USA BMW Teile Nr: 82 11 1 468 041 Porsche Teilenummer: 000.043.203.33 Olive Color fluid (Olive color, is defined as "yellow green")
2 of my local wholesale parts source list the Pentosin CHF 11S as the G 002 000, and the Pentosin CHF 7.1 is listed by them as the G 002 000 G. (The "G" means Green?) The CHF 7.1 costs 25% less than the CHF 11S from these suppliers.
Audi Parts
FLUSHING THE HYDRAULIC SYSTEM
I have used the synthetic Pentosin 11S in 1986-88 5000S/T/Q vehicles with no problems. On high mileage vehicles, I like to flush out the system to get the older fluid type out. I use Pentosin 11S as the flushing fluid, I remove the fluid reservoir and drain out the existing fluid, and strain it through a coffee filter to look for excessive black rubber crud, and metal fragments in the reservoir. Most Power Steering rack rebuilding companies usual won't warranty a rebuilt rack or pump failure unless all of the rubber hoses are replaced, as well as ensuring there are no metal fragments coming from the pump when only the rack is changed.
You should use some brake cleaner spray to completely clean out the reservoir. The filter/screen can be pulled up and out of the reservoir with some needle nose pliers. If this screen gets plugged up with rubber junk bits, the power steering system can be noisy.
When I flush out the fluid from the steering and brake system, I start out by re-installing the clean hydraulic reservoir with the return line fittings capped off, (so fluid won't leak out of the reservoir). Then I take all the return hoses coming from the brake accumulator, the brake power servo, and from the power steering rack that were connected to the fluid reservoir, and put them into a waste bucket (old coffee can) to collect the old fluid coming out of these systems.
Now I run the engine briefly as I quickly pour in clean Pentosin CHF 11S into the reservoir and watch the old fluid go into the waste bucket. You can briefly turn the steering wheel back and forth with the front wheels off the ground to get clean fluid going through the rack, you can also pump the brake pedal many times, with and without the engine running to flush out the power booster and accumulator and hopefully get clean fluid through these two areas. Make sure the reservoir is kept full during this procedure. Having a helper in the car to turn the steering wheel and who can turn off the engine quickly is a good idea while you pour clean fluid into the reservoir and watch the old fluid pour out of the return hoses into the coffee can. This can be a messy procedure......
My personal 89 200TQ had a rebuilt rack installed by a local shop before I purchased the car used, the shop used CHF 7.1 as indicated on the repair order. After purchasing the car, I flushed out the system using CHF 11S, and after 50,000 additional miles have not had any leakage from the rack. I did have to reseal the P/S pump at ~100k miles, but this is not unusual. The car came with a new brake accumulator (bomb) before I bought it. About 6 months ago, I changed the pressure hose from the pump to the bomb due to seepage.
The 1984-87 5000S/T/Q vehicles had many updates/changes that occurred to the hydraulic system in the form of improved steering racks, improved hoses, different new and rebuilt pumps, each with different suction/pressure hose fitting bolts with different orifices, so check the hose fitting bolts when replacing the pumps on these vehicles. The Bentley and the service bulletins should have this information. Of course all of the improvements didn't totally eliminate leakage/failure of these components......
The ZF catalog lists one rebuilt "short" rack for all the 1978-90 5000/100/200 vehicles which is interesting, it was my understanding that the early 1978-83 5000 vehicles used ATF in the power steering system. Possibly the rebuilt rack seals will work with either type of fluid.
AUDI SERVICE BULLETINS ON THE MINERAL HYDRAULIC OIL
Bulletin # 87-05 (dated: July 15, 1987) Group 48 Brakes-Steering 1984-87 5000S, 5000T, 5000TQ
Central Hydraulic System Fluid-New Type
"Hydraulic system fluid has been changed. NEW: Hydraulic system fluid, P/N G002 000 Improved Viscosity, Color: green
OLD: Hydraulic system fluid, P/N A0E 041 020 10 Color: Brown
Note: New and old hydraulic fluid can be mixed if necessary."
End of bulletin
From the set of microfiche Audi Service Training bulletins (Oct. 1994)
Nov: 89 Bulletin # 48-89-T07 Hydraulic System Fluid New Type Hydraulic Fluid has been improved as of MY 1990 NEW: Hydraulic Fluid: Part number is Unchanged (G 002 000) This Fluid is more temperature resistant Color: Olive
OLD: Hydraulic Fluid P/N G 002 000 Color: Green
The new hydraulic fluid can be identified by the "red" cap on the container.
NOTE: New and Old fluid can be mixed if
Audi recommends using only a mineral oil based fluid for the hydraulic power steering/brake system. This is for the large reservoir mounted on the firewall to the left of the brake master cylinder (RHD).
Pentosin is the manufacturer for the Audi factory fluid part number G 002 000. The Audi 5000 up to the 1989 models used the Pentosin CHF 7.1, in 1989 they went to a Pentosin CHF 11S which is a synthetic version with an improved temperature range.
The Pentosin cans indicate that the CHF 7.1 and the CHF 11S should not be mixed together, although the Audi service bulletins listed below say it is ok to mix them. Best advice if you are unsure which fluid was used in your car, is to flush out the old fluid when you had the new version (CHF 7.1 or 11S)
A quick look at the Pentosin CHF 7.1 container (white colored metal container with green cap), and at the Pentosin CHF 11S, (green colored metal container with red cap) provided the following information.
Pentosin CHF 7.1
Hydraulic system mineral oil for level control systems, hydro pneumatic suspension, shock absorber, power steering. Range of operation, -40C to +100C, especially recommended for countries of cold climate. Close container after use. Very Important: Pentosin CHF 7.1 should not be mixed with Pentosin CHF 11S or any other hydraulic oil BMW Teile Nr: 81 22 9 407 549 Green Color fluid
Pentosin CHF 11S
Synthetic Oil for central hydraulic systems, level control, hydro pneumatic suspension, shock absorber, power steering. Range of operation: -40C to +130C, especially recommended for countries of cold climate. Close container after use. Very Important: Pentosin CHF 11S should not be mixed with Pentosin CHF 7.1 or any other hydraulic oil. BMW Teile Nr: 81 22 9 407 758 USA BMW Teile Nr: 82 11 1 468 041 Porsche Teilenummer: 000.043.203.33 Olive Color fluid (Olive color, is defined as "yellow green")
2 of my local wholesale parts source list the Pentosin CHF 11S as the G 002 000, and the Pentosin CHF 7.1 is listed by them as the G 002 000 G. (The "G" means Green?) The CHF 7.1 costs 25% less than the CHF 11S from these suppliers.
Audi Parts
FLUSHING THE HYDRAULIC SYSTEM
I have used the synthetic Pentosin 11S in 1986-88 5000S/T/Q vehicles with no problems. On high mileage vehicles, I like to flush out the system to get the older fluid type out. I use Pentosin 11S as the flushing fluid, I remove the fluid reservoir and drain out the existing fluid, and strain it through a coffee filter to look for excessive black rubber crud, and metal fragments in the reservoir. Most Power Steering rack rebuilding companies usual won't warranty a rebuilt rack or pump failure unless all of the rubber hoses are replaced, as well as ensuring there are no metal fragments coming from the pump when only the rack is changed.
You should use some brake cleaner spray to completely clean out the reservoir. The filter/screen can be pulled up and out of the reservoir with some needle nose pliers. If this screen gets plugged up with rubber junk bits, the power steering system can be noisy.
When I flush out the fluid from the steering and brake system, I start out by re-installing the clean hydraulic reservoir with the return line fittings capped off, (so fluid won't leak out of the reservoir). Then I take all the return hoses coming from the brake accumulator, the brake power servo, and from the power steering rack that were connected to the fluid reservoir, and put them into a waste bucket (old coffee can) to collect the old fluid coming out of these systems.
Now I run the engine briefly as I quickly pour in clean Pentosin CHF 11S into the reservoir and watch the old fluid go into the waste bucket. You can briefly turn the steering wheel back and forth with the front wheels off the ground to get clean fluid going through the rack, you can also pump the brake pedal many times, with and without the engine running to flush out the power booster and accumulator and hopefully get clean fluid through these two areas. Make sure the reservoir is kept full during this procedure. Having a helper in the car to turn the steering wheel and who can turn off the engine quickly is a good idea while you pour clean fluid into the reservoir and watch the old fluid pour out of the return hoses into the coffee can. This can be a messy procedure......
My personal 89 200TQ had a rebuilt rack installed by a local shop before I purchased the car used, the shop used CHF 7.1 as indicated on the repair order. After purchasing the car, I flushed out the system using CHF 11S, and after 50,000 additional miles have not had any leakage from the rack. I did have to reseal the P/S pump at ~100k miles, but this is not unusual. The car came with a new brake accumulator (bomb) before I bought it. About 6 months ago, I changed the pressure hose from the pump to the bomb due to seepage.
The 1984-87 5000S/T/Q vehicles had many updates/changes that occurred to the hydraulic system in the form of improved steering racks, improved hoses, different new and rebuilt pumps, each with different suction/pressure hose fitting bolts with different orifices, so check the hose fitting bolts when replacing the pumps on these vehicles. The Bentley and the service bulletins should have this information. Of course all of the improvements didn't totally eliminate leakage/failure of these components......
The ZF catalog lists one rebuilt "short" rack for all the 1978-90 5000/100/200 vehicles which is interesting, it was my understanding that the early 1978-83 5000 vehicles used ATF in the power steering system. Possibly the rebuilt rack seals will work with either type of fluid.
AUDI SERVICE BULLETINS ON THE MINERAL HYDRAULIC OIL
Bulletin # 87-05 (dated: July 15, 1987) Group 48 Brakes-Steering 1984-87 5000S, 5000T, 5000TQ
Central Hydraulic System Fluid-New Type
"Hydraulic system fluid has been changed. NEW: Hydraulic system fluid, P/N G002 000 Improved Viscosity, Color: green
OLD: Hydraulic system fluid, P/N A0E 041 020 10 Color: Brown
Note: New and old hydraulic fluid can be mixed if necessary."
End of bulletin
From the set of microfiche Audi Service Training bulletins (Oct. 1994)
Nov: 89 Bulletin # 48-89-T07 Hydraulic System Fluid New Type Hydraulic Fluid has been improved as of MY 1990 NEW: Hydraulic Fluid: Part number is Unchanged (G 002 000) This Fluid is more temperature resistant Color: Olive
OLD: Hydraulic Fluid P/N G 002 000 Color: Green
The new hydraulic fluid can be identified by the "red" cap on the container.
NOTE: New and Old fluid can be mixed if
08-05-2002, 12:12 PM
#26
You know what dude...
Ive had just about enough of you.
This is not some "macho display of power", its called defense. You asked what fluid to use, I gave you an answer based on my experience as well as the others who use the fluid. Do a search, youll see for yourself.
YOU are the one who came back a couple days later trying to make me look like some little freakin' kid who had nothing better to do than to post on Audiworld. I was simply standing my ground.
Omidus.. I dont want to argue w/ you, I do have better things to do. I was just trying to help you out w/ a good power steering fluid. You dont have to use it, its your car but the people who do use it know its a great fluid. As much as I know you dont car, check the Chemical Abstract Registry numbers on the side of the can- all acceptable. I know the resivoir says to use ONLY Mineral but the people that use the stuff says its great and have never had a problem. I dont want to fight with you man, I post on Audiworld to help those who cant help themselves and to learn something new everyday- not for the sake of seeing my name on the board.
This is not some "macho display of power", its called defense. You asked what fluid to use, I gave you an answer based on my experience as well as the others who use the fluid. Do a search, youll see for yourself.
YOU are the one who came back a couple days later trying to make me look like some little freakin' kid who had nothing better to do than to post on Audiworld. I was simply standing my ground.
Omidus.. I dont want to argue w/ you, I do have better things to do. I was just trying to help you out w/ a good power steering fluid. You dont have to use it, its your car but the people who do use it know its a great fluid. As much as I know you dont car, check the Chemical Abstract Registry numbers on the side of the can- all acceptable. I know the resivoir says to use ONLY Mineral but the people that use the stuff says its great and have never had a problem. I dont want to fight with you man, I post on Audiworld to help those who cant help themselves and to learn something new everyday- not for the sake of seeing my name on the board.
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