1.8T with chip OR 3.0?? Help!
04-07-2003, 01:31 PM
#11
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I have a 1.8T, but....
... I would have gotten a 3.0 if money were no option.
The turbo is fun, but IMHO, there is not substitute for displacement. The 3.0 is sooo smooth and refined.
A chipped 1.8T is quick and zippy, but will never have the smooth 6 cly. feel that I am sure you are probably used to by now since you are coming from a 330.
Also, don't plan on chipping unless you are 100% prepared to accept the potential for warranty problems. People will argue that you should have no problems, but you never really know. Some have had problems. If you chip, you are definately sacrificing some peace of mind.
When I got my 1.8T, I figured I'd chip it too. However, now that I own the car, I have all kinds of lingering questions that nobody really knows the answer to.
1) Will I one day have turbo issues - before 50,000 miles - that the warranty won't cover?
2) After 50,000 miles - when warranty is no longer an issue - will turbo fail prematurely due to stress from chip?
3) I put 25,000 miles/year on my car. Will I be able to pay off my car before it dies prematurely due to chip? I am no engineer, but I am sure that chipping a car can't be good for the engine's longevity.
Bottom line: If you can afford a 3.0, you should just get it. Then you will have 220hp all under warranty. No games. And you get some other neat features that the 1.8T doesn't have. If I could do it again, and I had more $$$, I would get a 3.0 and add rims. Done!
The turbo is fun, but IMHO, there is not substitute for displacement. The 3.0 is sooo smooth and refined.
A chipped 1.8T is quick and zippy, but will never have the smooth 6 cly. feel that I am sure you are probably used to by now since you are coming from a 330.
Also, don't plan on chipping unless you are 100% prepared to accept the potential for warranty problems. People will argue that you should have no problems, but you never really know. Some have had problems. If you chip, you are definately sacrificing some peace of mind.
When I got my 1.8T, I figured I'd chip it too. However, now that I own the car, I have all kinds of lingering questions that nobody really knows the answer to.
1) Will I one day have turbo issues - before 50,000 miles - that the warranty won't cover?
2) After 50,000 miles - when warranty is no longer an issue - will turbo fail prematurely due to stress from chip?
3) I put 25,000 miles/year on my car. Will I be able to pay off my car before it dies prematurely due to chip? I am no engineer, but I am sure that chipping a car can't be good for the engine's longevity.
Bottom line: If you can afford a 3.0, you should just get it. Then you will have 220hp all under warranty. No games. And you get some other neat features that the 1.8T doesn't have. If I could do it again, and I had more $$$, I would get a 3.0 and add rims. Done!
04-07-2003, 01:35 PM
#12
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Here's the hint...
At the top of each page you'll see links of which one is "search forum". When you follow that, you go to the search page. It's important that you choose the B6 forum designated as "A4 (02-)" from the "database" pull-down menu. The rest in intuitive. If you want to use this forum, I guess using the search is going to prove useful. Good Luck!
04-07-2003, 01:36 PM
#13
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I just get so frustrated when people say "chipping the 3.0 is useless"
Or "the 1.8T is the obvious winner". I really don't want to be rude, it's just that you hear it day in and day out.
Mike
Mike
04-07-2003, 01:45 PM
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My 2 cents...
If the money is not that of an issue, and if you really care for a persormance car, get the S4.
If you want to have an A4, 3.0L is a better option. Yes, you can get a lot from a modified turbocharged car, but it all comes at a cost. Look for feedbacks on potential and actual risks of heavey modifications, Besides, it takes tonnes of knowledge and $$$ to get everything working. If you don't want this, or if you plan to have just a moderate chip upgrade, then 1.8T cannot beat the 3.0.
I don't remember the figures, but since the 3.0L is all aluminium whereas 1.8T is cast iron (plus the weight of turbo components), the 3.0L engine is not going to be much heavier than the 1.8T, so should not cause a great understeer.
If you want to have an A4, 3.0L is a better option. Yes, you can get a lot from a modified turbocharged car, but it all comes at a cost. Look for feedbacks on potential and actual risks of heavey modifications, Besides, it takes tonnes of knowledge and $$$ to get everything working. If you don't want this, or if you plan to have just a moderate chip upgrade, then 1.8T cannot beat the 3.0.
I don't remember the figures, but since the 3.0L is all aluminium whereas 1.8T is cast iron (plus the weight of turbo components), the 3.0L engine is not going to be much heavier than the 1.8T, so should not cause a great understeer.
04-07-2003, 01:47 PM
#16
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A few answers..
1) Will I one day have turbo issues - before 50,000 miles - that the warranty won't cover?
<b>You can never be absolutely certain in anything to do with tuning. But, assuming that the turbo is healthy, you shouldn't have any issues. In the past 3 years I have been on AW, I have only heard of 2-3 premature turbo failures on a healthy turbo. In the first few years of the A4 1.8T, there were a few bugs but this was because of the poorly designed turbo.</b>
2) After 50,000 miles - when warranty is no longer an issue - will turbo fail prematurely due to stress from chip?
<b>Again, you can never guarantee anything, but if you take care of your car, you can expect around 80K miles. Keep in mind a turbo itself, you can find for between $800-1,200 depending on who you purchase from. Personally, this alone would not deter me.</b>
3) I put 25,000 miles/year on my car. Will I be able to pay off my car before it dies prematurely due to chip? I am no engineer, but I am sure that chipping a car can't be good for the engine's longevity.
<b>Reliability is highly dependant on how well the engine is treated. Given that you are stock, if you don't take proper care of the engine it won't last long either. Stock does not always equal reliability. A chip mostly increases stress on the turbo itself. Again, I have never heard of an engine failure from chip alone. There were a few failures from S3 and T28 upgrades in the B5 community, but they were mostly the result of improper installations.</b>
IMO, looking at the price of the chip alone is not going to factor in future issues when chipping. However, if you consider that for 2K, including the price of a chip and turbo replacement after 80k or possibly more miles, 40HP and ~70TQ is a very reasonable price.
Mike
<b>You can never be absolutely certain in anything to do with tuning. But, assuming that the turbo is healthy, you shouldn't have any issues. In the past 3 years I have been on AW, I have only heard of 2-3 premature turbo failures on a healthy turbo. In the first few years of the A4 1.8T, there were a few bugs but this was because of the poorly designed turbo.</b>
2) After 50,000 miles - when warranty is no longer an issue - will turbo fail prematurely due to stress from chip?
<b>Again, you can never guarantee anything, but if you take care of your car, you can expect around 80K miles. Keep in mind a turbo itself, you can find for between $800-1,200 depending on who you purchase from. Personally, this alone would not deter me.</b>
3) I put 25,000 miles/year on my car. Will I be able to pay off my car before it dies prematurely due to chip? I am no engineer, but I am sure that chipping a car can't be good for the engine's longevity.
<b>Reliability is highly dependant on how well the engine is treated. Given that you are stock, if you don't take proper care of the engine it won't last long either. Stock does not always equal reliability. A chip mostly increases stress on the turbo itself. Again, I have never heard of an engine failure from chip alone. There were a few failures from S3 and T28 upgrades in the B5 community, but they were mostly the result of improper installations.</b>
IMO, looking at the price of the chip alone is not going to factor in future issues when chipping. However, if you consider that for 2K, including the price of a chip and turbo replacement after 80k or possibly more miles, 40HP and ~70TQ is a very reasonable price.
Mike
04-07-2003, 01:52 PM
#18
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I checked and the weight increase of the 3.0 engine is ~65 lbs.
Don Pavlik has a FAQ on his S4 brake upgrade. He weighed the stock components and lost 44Lbs going with the AP Racing kit.
I figure I will go this route since that will nearly remove all the increase in weight for the 3.0 and help with fade.
Mike
I figure I will go this route since that will nearly remove all the increase in weight for the 3.0 and help with fade.
Mike
04-07-2003, 02:21 PM
#19
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Thanks.... more clarification.....
I seem to remember a post on this board from a few months ago. Some guy had a HUGE warranty issue on his B6 due to the chip, and it wasn't even his turbo. I will have to do a search to be sure, but he was getting screwed big time.
I'll never forget the responses from people on this forum.... the same people who day after day mock people like me for being sceptical and constantly say that chipping is safe were now spewing juvenile tag lines like, "you gotta pay to play" or "sucks to be you."
IMO, one of the best things we have with the A4 is the Audi guarentee standing behind it. If something goes wrong, they fix it - PERIOD.
It seems that with a chip, if anything mechanical goes wrong (turbo or not), AofA has a huge incentive to find a way out of providing coverage. If the car is chipped, you give them the perfect excuse to deny coverage. Seems like almost anything in the entire engine could be traced back to the ECU.
99% of the time, you will be fine. I am sure you are banking on that. Somehow, I think if I was chipped, I'd be driving a bit scared... praying that nothing happens bad. As it is now, I drive with no stress because I have no such worries.
Perhaps I am over-analyzing this. One day I might get a chip after all. I guess I have to reconcile my fears for myself instead of relying on what people on the forum say.
I'll never forget the responses from people on this forum.... the same people who day after day mock people like me for being sceptical and constantly say that chipping is safe were now spewing juvenile tag lines like, "you gotta pay to play" or "sucks to be you."
IMO, one of the best things we have with the A4 is the Audi guarentee standing behind it. If something goes wrong, they fix it - PERIOD.
It seems that with a chip, if anything mechanical goes wrong (turbo or not), AofA has a huge incentive to find a way out of providing coverage. If the car is chipped, you give them the perfect excuse to deny coverage. Seems like almost anything in the entire engine could be traced back to the ECU.
99% of the time, you will be fine. I am sure you are banking on that. Somehow, I think if I was chipped, I'd be driving a bit scared... praying that nothing happens bad. As it is now, I drive with no stress because I have no such worries.
Perhaps I am over-analyzing this. One day I might get a chip after all. I guess I have to reconcile my fears for myself instead of relying on what people on the forum say.
