Audi A4 @ Invoice???
02-11-2002, 12:27 PM
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Re: No, That is the problem. I don't know of ANY good service depts close to SF.
Rector has a clean place, My brother in-law has been taking his A4 & A6 Avant there with minimal complaints. However, they did scratch his front quarter panel last time. (they paid for the body shop work though). I'm probably going to take mine in this week, there was a service advisor they said not to go to, I forgot his name.
02-13-2002, 11:27 PM
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Re: All I'm going to say is waht I've said before THE LOWEST PRICE IS NOT THE BEST DEAL!!!.....
Sure, its nice and dandy when you see this whole invoice versus MSRP in a macro economic way. But at the end, what should one consumer worry about when making a purchase, especially one that is arguably the second most expensive after purchasing a house??? It's the COST!!! $1,000 less out of pocket is $1,000 more to spend!!! Give me free $1,000 dollar right now, and I'll make myself very happy for at least a week if not a month!!!
Yes, I agree, dealerships need to make money, deservedly so. This world is all about statistical distribution. There are some that will be fooled and/or rich enough to pay way above MSRP, some lazy and/or rich enough to pay MSRP, some decent enough to pay 3-5% above invoice, and last but not least, some that are resilient and/or budgetarily challenged enough to pay invoice.
So, where does this get us??? Well if you average out all these car purchasers, the dealers will get their profits. Question is, which kind of buyer are you???
I happen to be not that rich, but enough to purchase an Audi comfortably. But its the principle of getting ripped off. No matter how rich I am, I am not going to pay X + Y dollar for something when I can only get the same product for X. Why??? Because I could use it somewhere else.
Comparing Audi to BMW & Mercedes: Its all about the cycle. True, BMW and Mercedes may be tier 1 and making a larger profit margin. As this trend continues, Audi can catch up by providing the same level of quality in service and quality and earning less profit. In time, this value will increase Audi's fame and credibility thus earning it the same status as BMW and Mercedes. This of course assumes that Audi also catches up to BMW and Mercedes in reliability. (Though BMW and Benz both also don't awesome reliability of Lexus, they're still deemed better than Audi as J.D. Powers reported in 2001. A car company certainly will not up its status by simply charging more!!! Even Mercedes is making less of a profit margin than it did before, way less. Why??? Because people think its not worth it...so what did Mercedes do, lower its profit margin. Price does not fix demand, but demand fixes price!!! Sure, Audi can charge as much as BMW and Mercedes, Audi will just lower its sales by a LOT!!! Why, because people still have the mentality that BMW and Benz are tier 1 while Audi is tier 2. So the only way to better Audi is to make its product more desirable and when prime status is achieved, price or profit margin increase will come.
Sure the "cheapest" car is not the best deal. But the "most expensive" car is not the best deal either, because if you buy an expensive Audi, it doesn't make that specific car more reliable. Unless of course you're suggesting that when you buy a car for the "cheapest" price at Audi, the product is magically worse!!!??? Are you saying that a car is sabotaged when the price is cheap??? That's a crime.
Its all supply and demand, if you don't like the price the customer offers, don't sell the car to him/her. Similarly, if the customer doesn't like the price the dealer offer, he or she can leave.
The issue of holdback: First of all, not all holdbacks or kickbacks are public!!! Of course, as long as they remain secret, Audi customers will continue to think there are no holdbacks. There is a possibility that there is no holdback at all!!! But, the point is we never know. Just remember, whatever the customers know, the dealers know MORE!!! That's how they continue to stay in business and prosper. My suggestion that we all pay less is not to rob the livelihood of dealers, but simply to minimize the dealers ability to rob the purchasers.
Take Honda for example, before holdbacks were ever known, people were glad to buy accords for 5% above invoice when dealers were all making at least 5% + 3% which was holdback. This does not include other rebates and incentives. Now that holdbacks are known, dealers will now make 5%. And bear in mind, they are not making 5% off $20 product but a car which is a purchase in the 5 digits in magnitude.
Lastly, when I suggest customers to buy at invoice, its simply a good starting point. Most likely, they will end up purchasing it at a compromise point somewhere between invoice and MSRP which is a much fairer price than MSRP. Of course if its a late year model, with an unpopular color, or wrong options on it, and such, you may be able to get it at invoice or lower.
But we're talking about 02 Audi A4, an allnew car!!! Well, we're also at a recession!!! Dealerships are empty most of the time. Interest rates have hit rock bottom, and very few buyers are seriously buying. So like I said, supply and demand rules. There is a consistent supply of a very desirably allnew model Audi A4, a German car. But, people are laid off, companies aren't hiring, dotcoms have bombed, points to lower demand. So think of both effects to even each other out, so the new A4 should only be priced at halfway between invoice and MSRP with more resilient and/or poor buyers paying less than that.
There you go!!! I'm looking out for my own interest, its only human. Dealers look out for theirs, buyers look out for theirs, and the price will be fair!!!
Yes, I agree, dealerships need to make money, deservedly so. This world is all about statistical distribution. There are some that will be fooled and/or rich enough to pay way above MSRP, some lazy and/or rich enough to pay MSRP, some decent enough to pay 3-5% above invoice, and last but not least, some that are resilient and/or budgetarily challenged enough to pay invoice.
So, where does this get us??? Well if you average out all these car purchasers, the dealers will get their profits. Question is, which kind of buyer are you???
I happen to be not that rich, but enough to purchase an Audi comfortably. But its the principle of getting ripped off. No matter how rich I am, I am not going to pay X + Y dollar for something when I can only get the same product for X. Why??? Because I could use it somewhere else.
Comparing Audi to BMW & Mercedes: Its all about the cycle. True, BMW and Mercedes may be tier 1 and making a larger profit margin. As this trend continues, Audi can catch up by providing the same level of quality in service and quality and earning less profit. In time, this value will increase Audi's fame and credibility thus earning it the same status as BMW and Mercedes. This of course assumes that Audi also catches up to BMW and Mercedes in reliability. (Though BMW and Benz both also don't awesome reliability of Lexus, they're still deemed better than Audi as J.D. Powers reported in 2001. A car company certainly will not up its status by simply charging more!!! Even Mercedes is making less of a profit margin than it did before, way less. Why??? Because people think its not worth it...so what did Mercedes do, lower its profit margin. Price does not fix demand, but demand fixes price!!! Sure, Audi can charge as much as BMW and Mercedes, Audi will just lower its sales by a LOT!!! Why, because people still have the mentality that BMW and Benz are tier 1 while Audi is tier 2. So the only way to better Audi is to make its product more desirable and when prime status is achieved, price or profit margin increase will come.
Sure the "cheapest" car is not the best deal. But the "most expensive" car is not the best deal either, because if you buy an expensive Audi, it doesn't make that specific car more reliable. Unless of course you're suggesting that when you buy a car for the "cheapest" price at Audi, the product is magically worse!!!??? Are you saying that a car is sabotaged when the price is cheap??? That's a crime.
Its all supply and demand, if you don't like the price the customer offers, don't sell the car to him/her. Similarly, if the customer doesn't like the price the dealer offer, he or she can leave.
The issue of holdback: First of all, not all holdbacks or kickbacks are public!!! Of course, as long as they remain secret, Audi customers will continue to think there are no holdbacks. There is a possibility that there is no holdback at all!!! But, the point is we never know. Just remember, whatever the customers know, the dealers know MORE!!! That's how they continue to stay in business and prosper. My suggestion that we all pay less is not to rob the livelihood of dealers, but simply to minimize the dealers ability to rob the purchasers.
Take Honda for example, before holdbacks were ever known, people were glad to buy accords for 5% above invoice when dealers were all making at least 5% + 3% which was holdback. This does not include other rebates and incentives. Now that holdbacks are known, dealers will now make 5%. And bear in mind, they are not making 5% off $20 product but a car which is a purchase in the 5 digits in magnitude.
Lastly, when I suggest customers to buy at invoice, its simply a good starting point. Most likely, they will end up purchasing it at a compromise point somewhere between invoice and MSRP which is a much fairer price than MSRP. Of course if its a late year model, with an unpopular color, or wrong options on it, and such, you may be able to get it at invoice or lower.
But we're talking about 02 Audi A4, an allnew car!!! Well, we're also at a recession!!! Dealerships are empty most of the time. Interest rates have hit rock bottom, and very few buyers are seriously buying. So like I said, supply and demand rules. There is a consistent supply of a very desirably allnew model Audi A4, a German car. But, people are laid off, companies aren't hiring, dotcoms have bombed, points to lower demand. So think of both effects to even each other out, so the new A4 should only be priced at halfway between invoice and MSRP with more resilient and/or poor buyers paying less than that.
There you go!!! I'm looking out for my own interest, its only human. Dealers look out for theirs, buyers look out for theirs, and the price will be fair!!!
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