Audi Reliability
01-12-2002, 07:32 AM
#11
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I made the plunge anyway
After 20 years of Nissan (3 Z-cars, Pathfinder, and a '99 Maxima), I too am worried about reliability. However, I convinced myself that I needed a change, in spite of the attractive features of the 2002 Maxima SE 6-speed.
Last Friday, I committed to a 2002 Audi A4 1.8M. In doing so, I broke one of my personal caveats: don't buy a model the first year it is out. Browsing this forum, I found that Audi has been particularly unlucky in the first year with A6 and TT. I rationalized my choice by deciding to keep the car for only 42-48 months, and let Audi Advantage take care of me.
Since the car is not here yet, I still have to decide to buy or lease. If the car is prone to trouble, there may not be any resale value in 42 months, so maybe I should lease. However, a used 02 may be a rare commodity with a high resale at that time, and may re-sell for more than my outstanding loan balance.
Dilemma!
Last Friday, I committed to a 2002 Audi A4 1.8M. In doing so, I broke one of my personal caveats: don't buy a model the first year it is out. Browsing this forum, I found that Audi has been particularly unlucky in the first year with A6 and TT. I rationalized my choice by deciding to keep the car for only 42-48 months, and let Audi Advantage take care of me.
Since the car is not here yet, I still have to decide to buy or lease. If the car is prone to trouble, there may not be any resale value in 42 months, so maybe I should lease. However, a used 02 may be a rare commodity with a high resale at that time, and may re-sell for more than my outstanding loan balance.
Dilemma!
01-12-2002, 08:16 AM
#12
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I have owned an Acura and parents have owned 3 different Lexus cars.....
From my experience, the Acura is not as trouble free as you say. I had problems with my 12V cigarette lighter hanging/falling off (Very cheap), transmission problems, rattling noises, etc. Yes it was a pretty reliable car, but every car.....regardless if you buy a Lexus, Acura, BMW, Audi, Mercedes, etc....they will have their problems. My girlfriend has had her 2002 Mercedes SLK320 for less than 5,000 miles now, and her driver's side mirror has literally fallen off twice already!!!
01-12-2002, 09:46 AM
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Two definitions of reliability should be used: 1) Based on failures 2) Based on degradation.
My own experience with Subaru Forester and my monitoring of my friend's experience with their Lexus, leads me to the following conclusion:
. The German cars maintain their 'like new' qualities for a much longer period of time. They may, though, experience more frequent failures over time (more frequent failures is not my experience, it's what the magazine, 'Consumer Reports' seems to say based on their statistical data).
. The Japanese cars don't experience parts 'failures' quite so often, but that new car feeling goes away considerably more quickly (both in the way the car drives and in the way it looks and feels regardless of the amount of care you put into it).
Now, if you plan on keeping your car for 10 years, you're probably better off going with the Lexus. If, though, you're amongst those of us who don't keep our cars longer than 3 to 5 years, get the Audi. IMHO It's the more reliable if you combine the two views on reliability noted in the header. Oh, one other point if you fall in this latter catagory, Audi's all encompassing waranty that includes ALL service for that first 4 years or 50,000 miles is really nice. As I understand it those Lexus scheduled service visits are rather pricey.
. The German cars maintain their 'like new' qualities for a much longer period of time. They may, though, experience more frequent failures over time (more frequent failures is not my experience, it's what the magazine, 'Consumer Reports' seems to say based on their statistical data).
. The Japanese cars don't experience parts 'failures' quite so often, but that new car feeling goes away considerably more quickly (both in the way the car drives and in the way it looks and feels regardless of the amount of care you put into it).
Now, if you plan on keeping your car for 10 years, you're probably better off going with the Lexus. If, though, you're amongst those of us who don't keep our cars longer than 3 to 5 years, get the Audi. IMHO It's the more reliable if you combine the two views on reliability noted in the header. Oh, one other point if you fall in this latter catagory, Audi's all encompassing waranty that includes ALL service for that first 4 years or 50,000 miles is really nice. As I understand it those Lexus scheduled service visits are rather pricey.
01-12-2002, 04:44 PM
#14
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The all inclusive services sold me.
I was looking at a TL-S and A4. I had an Acura before the A4 and the services do get extremely expensive for what seems to be not too much work. Over the course of 4 years of ownership I would have spent any savings on a TL for just those services alone. I'm pretty sure it is the same way with a Lexus.
01-12-2002, 06:47 PM
#15
If you want kitchen appliance reliability, stick with upper level Japanese cars. If you want
refined fun, the Audi is a great car. Yes, you will have little glitches that come up. Some of us would call it character most of the time;-)
NMAudi makes a very good point. I've seen many a used Japanese prestige car and many a an older German car at trade-in. The German's are more maintainence, but reward you in other ways as well as feeling screwed together better for longer. The Japanese cars may still work very well, but have lost that nicely put together feeling.
It's a trade-off. You must choose your priorities and live with them. Fun but more maintainence or boring with little need to do anything but add gas.
NMAudi makes a very good point. I've seen many a used Japanese prestige car and many a an older German car at trade-in. The German's are more maintainence, but reward you in other ways as well as feeling screwed together better for longer. The Japanese cars may still work very well, but have lost that nicely put together feeling.
It's a trade-off. You must choose your priorities and live with them. Fun but more maintainence or boring with little need to do anything but add gas.
01-12-2002, 09:47 PM
#16
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Re-read your post.
Are you a car enthusiast or a financial planner? One determines their decision based on their wallet and the other one determines their decision based on emotion. After reading your post, take a guess which one you come off as?
01-13-2002, 05:24 AM
#17
My $.02 ...
My TT has been a maintaince hound, but it's been supplier defects from the beginning and is slowly falling into shape.
My A4 (this is my second) has been the opposite. Both this and the previous were surprisingly Honda-like in relieability. My first A4 had a leaky water pump in the first 3k miles ( a bad batch supposedly in a bunch of cars) = my Integra had a recall on the ignition module - AFTER it stranded me twice when the car wouldn't start.
Otherwise, both were relieable and even fun - but the A4 is more of a vault of comfort and handling than the lighter Integra was and I sure feel safer in it next to the whale like SUV's clogging my local roads.
Plus, the A4 has been and is going back to the track and it feels great.
Maybe when it gets into the much higher miles... but so far so good.
A data point, for what it's worth.
My A4 (this is my second) has been the opposite. Both this and the previous were surprisingly Honda-like in relieability. My first A4 had a leaky water pump in the first 3k miles ( a bad batch supposedly in a bunch of cars) = my Integra had a recall on the ignition module - AFTER it stranded me twice when the car wouldn't start.
Otherwise, both were relieable and even fun - but the A4 is more of a vault of comfort and handling than the lighter Integra was and I sure feel safer in it next to the whale like SUV's clogging my local roads.
Plus, the A4 has been and is going back to the track and it feels great.
Maybe when it gets into the much higher miles... but so far so good.
A data point, for what it's worth.
01-13-2002, 09:04 AM
#20
Rexus & Racura are not even car companies! They are name-plates! Been around like a whole 10 years!
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I think the avarage Jap or American car buyer is not looking as hard for "defects" as Euro car buyers, or for that fact, even know what a good car is supposed to be. Jap car buyers are "fine" with blown suspensions and winey engines. They don't consider there to be a problem with the ride at 100k when the shocks are long gone. Low maintainance is the whole theme. A Euro-car owner puts more work into their car for a reason. They WANT to. A new set of shocks is a good investment for a Euro car because it is always worth fixing. Who restores 15-20 y/o Datsuns? I have 2 15 y/o Audis on the road right now, they did not need restoring. Shocks and alternators, that's it. 145k and 185k. As for American cars, GM is #1, GO USA, 0% Financing, Keep America Rolling. Thats what sells American cars, Buick? Olds? they still sell cars, but to OLD people who have no clue. I can picture the design team, making a mock-up of a car and them saying "ok guys, lets make it steer too, I need it done by the end of the day". All Jap cars need to do is be a little bit better than American cars. 3rd world cars like French ones are even better than US. Euro cars do their own thing, can't compare a sexy Infinity QX4 to a solid Mercedes, unless you do all your reasearch via TV commercials. Remember, the younger the buyer/survey respondant, the more complaints there are registered. Look at VW vs Cadiliac, or Buick, is the VW a worse car because of surveys?
I think the avarage Jap or American car buyer is not looking as hard for "defects" as Euro car buyers, or for that fact, even know what a good car is supposed to be. Jap car buyers are "fine" with blown suspensions and winey engines. They don't consider there to be a problem with the ride at 100k when the shocks are long gone. Low maintainance is the whole theme. A Euro-car owner puts more work into their car for a reason. They WANT to. A new set of shocks is a good investment for a Euro car because it is always worth fixing. Who restores 15-20 y/o Datsuns? I have 2 15 y/o Audis on the road right now, they did not need restoring. Shocks and alternators, that's it. 145k and 185k. As for American cars, GM is #1, GO USA, 0% Financing, Keep America Rolling. Thats what sells American cars, Buick? Olds? they still sell cars, but to OLD people who have no clue. I can picture the design team, making a mock-up of a car and them saying "ok guys, lets make it steer too, I need it done by the end of the day". All Jap cars need to do is be a little bit better than American cars. 3rd world cars like French ones are even better than US. Euro cars do their own thing, can't compare a sexy Infinity QX4 to a solid Mercedes, unless you do all your reasearch via TV commercials. Remember, the younger the buyer/survey respondant, the more complaints there are registered. Look at VW vs Cadiliac, or Buick, is the VW a worse car because of surveys?