Final Update on my MTM Stage 2 Issue: That's it for me..... no more Hoppen.
09-24-2004, 02:21 PM
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Final Update on my MTM Stage 2 Issue: That's it for me..... no more Hoppen.
Well, I'm back to driving a slug, but at least it's running. <img src="http://www.audizine.com/forum/images/smilies/smile.gif">
For those not familiar with my situation, you can read my previous "UPDATE" post <a href="https://forums.audiworld.com/a4gen2/msgs/626349.phtml">here</a>.
So between that post and now, from April, when I first bought the upgrade, not a lot has changed in almost 5 months! with finding a solution and getting any help. To sum it up; the MTM Stage 2 upgrade did not run well and didn't live up to the claim of 215HP/245 lbs/ft torque. (Please note that the issue here is with the Stage 1+ SW & Injectors though, not the exhaust, which makes it a Stage 2). Hoppen Motorsport was well aware of my situation for a while, but they never really responded to it as one would think and let it drag on for months without actually doing anything about it. In my mind, when a customer in my situation informs a tuner/dealer of an engine upgrade that is not running properly, as well as not living up to its power claims, I expect that tuner/dealer to get in touch with the customer and work with them until it is resolved - period! It's all about business ethics, doing what's right (which seems to be seriously lacking in this market IMHO). I don't think the customer should have to pick up the phone once (unless it is to return their call). The customer should be put at the top of their "Priority List" and taken care of immediately. And if in the end, nothing can be done to resolve the problem to the customers satisfaction, then that tuner/dealer should, without any hesitation, offer a full refund and take back the parts. Maybe even some compensation for labor. But that didn't happen here with me..... Makes you wonder why they prefer the negative press.
After the dyno results and complaints of how the car just didn't seem to be running right were passed to Hoppen, not a whole lot happened on their part. They had everything I could give them at that point and knew what the problem was. As mentioned before, their response was to blame the gas, plugs, DVR,.. etc., and Joe Hoppen felt that the MTM SW was flawless and that it must be my car somehow. Well yeah, it's my car, but it's because I put this MTM Stage 1+ upgrade in it. It was running perfect before this.
The only thing they didn't have was VAGCOM readings from the car (although looking back, they had the perfect opportunity to do just that when I was at AMS having Marc dyno it and adjusting the timing back - as per Mike Hoppens instructions). You can see how that turned out from my prior post.
I also tried corresponding with Michael at Ikon Motorsport (where I purchased the MTM Stage 1+) to help communicate with Hoppen and try to resolve it. But even he ran into the same obstacle from Hoppen - lack of concern and difficulty with communication. The main problem though was dealing with Mike Hoppen (he's not very pleasant to deal with, nor helpful). I remember one of the first things he said to me was;"The dyno charts are useless.". Ok, I thought, even though it did prove that the claims were not being delivered and that "dialing" back the timing didn't help any, but maybe you could offer a little more constructive assistance instead of ridiculing my efforts to show you that something was not right here? I just wanted an answer and they didn't seem to be able to give me that. So later on, after some more wasted time and no answers, he asked for me to get some VAGCOM readings through Michael, but never specified exactly how, but just to get them (this was a sign of how difficult it was to be with getting any kind of a resolution to my problem, very condenscending attitude). Anyways, since I was having my Audi tech do this VAGCOM for me as a favor, I didn't know what exactly needed to be done (as I was no VAGCOM expert) and just said that I needed these "Blocks" read. And of course it wasn't what Mike Hoppen wanted and me and my tech were insulted by him. (In defense of my tech; he may be an Audi tech, but he's just doing what I ask of him, because he doesn't do any aftermarket tuning).
So, since what I got from him wasn't what Mike wanted, and instead of trying to be more clear about what he needed and helping me, he just became arrogant and ignored it. Michael kept after him though and was in full support of wanting to help get this situation resolved. But even he was tiring of it.
Later on (a few weeks), I managed to have someone local with the RossTech SW perform a VAGCOM reading and was able to get a "realtime" readout during two 0-80 mph runs with all the Blocks needed by Hoppen. I sent these to Hoppen and waited. Nothing.... Still nothing.... A while later, after talking with Michael, I find out that Mike Hoppen was not pleased by my earlier post and was purposely putting off finding a solution for my problem. I was stunned and furious. All those horror stories about Hoppen began to flash by. I'm thinking; "what the hell is it with them? How/why can they treat a customer like this and still be in business?" Not to mention all the verbal praise/support I give MTM products and the money I spent on it. This was just completely absurd. I really couldn't stand to try and call them though, because I knew it would just get ugly. When you reach that point and a tuner acts like this, there really isn't anything to discuss and it's time to get your money back or take legal action. It doesn't matter how much you discuss it. They know what is wrong and are obviously not concerned enough to take care of it. It's that typical circumstance where they have your money and thats that.
During this time too, the new NA Canadian MTM Importer, Horchaus, offered to help me out (Jet Jockey works with him). Let me first say that if the NA MTM Importer/Dist. was Horchaus, things would be a hell of a lot better for everyone. Benoit, the owner, seems to honestly care about his reputation and customer service (even though I was not a customer). If I were in Canada, I wouldn't be in this situation (at least I hope not). I sent them all the dyno, VAGCOM and car details, along with what was wrong. They did try, but had difficulties with obtaining fast answers from MTM due to vacation [MTM], language barriers and time differences. Just keep in mind that Horchaus was doing this out of their own good will and trying to help out an MTM customer. They didn't have to do it. Well, as time passed and Hoppen still just ignored my situation, I decided that I had had enough and would dump the MTM Stage 1+ SW and injectors and return my car to stock. I also wasn't about to lose $1350. Plus, I had already spent almost $500 trying to deal with this (dyno, different plugs, labor, my time,..etc).
So you're asking, did I get my money back. The answer is YES! <img src="http://www.audizine.com/forum/images/smilies/biggrin.gif"> I basically faxed a letter explaining to Joe Hoppen what the problem was and how disatisfied I was with both Hoppen Motorsport and MTM. I asked for a full refund and if I could not get satisfaction, that I would take legal action to get it back. Joe Hoppen thankfully understood and agreed to my request. I returned my car to stock (replacing the OEM injectors and shipping them back with my ECU to be put back to stock, another $30+ for Next-Day delivery too). It took two days to get it back though. In a weeks time after, the amount was refunded to Ikon (they couldn't do it direct to me), and Michael then quickly sent me a check for the full amount of $1350. I'm happy now, but still irritated by the whole ordeal. I'm just glad to be done with it. I'll never deal with Hoppen again (<i>"Hoppen's bad... mkay"</i>). I also find it hard to support MTM any longer because it directly supports Hoppen. I still think the MTM exhaust is the best, but I'm now divided with recommending it because I don't want to give business to Hoppen, or have other customers experience what I did. Is there something about MTM dealers in the US? Because it hasn't been exactly great with any of them except Ikon Motorsport (although I'm not even sure if Ikon will still be an MTM dealer after this).
MTM needs to seriously look at another NA Importer IMO. Which brings up the fact that I also sent a number of complaints to MTM in English and German about all my experiences with their products and dealers/importer, but never received a response. <img src="http://www.audizine.com/forum/images/smilies/mad.gif">
Moral of the story; deal with a local tuner and make sure it is proven for your vehicle/make/year and available octane (in my case, only CA 91). And make sure they understand that if it does not perform as claimed, you will want a full refund.
Now I can focus on my secret turbo project. <img src="http://www.audizine.com/forum/images/smilies/cool.gif">
And now this for your after reading, viewing pleasure...
<img src="http://www.image-hosting.net/images/digital/A4NCAR/127_2755.JPG">
<img src="http://www.image-hosting.net/images/digital/A4NCAR/duplicate_9966_Mr%20Mackey%20Sig.jpg">
For those not familiar with my situation, you can read my previous "UPDATE" post <a href="https://forums.audiworld.com/a4gen2/msgs/626349.phtml">here</a>.
So between that post and now, from April, when I first bought the upgrade, not a lot has changed in almost 5 months! with finding a solution and getting any help. To sum it up; the MTM Stage 2 upgrade did not run well and didn't live up to the claim of 215HP/245 lbs/ft torque. (Please note that the issue here is with the Stage 1+ SW & Injectors though, not the exhaust, which makes it a Stage 2). Hoppen Motorsport was well aware of my situation for a while, but they never really responded to it as one would think and let it drag on for months without actually doing anything about it. In my mind, when a customer in my situation informs a tuner/dealer of an engine upgrade that is not running properly, as well as not living up to its power claims, I expect that tuner/dealer to get in touch with the customer and work with them until it is resolved - period! It's all about business ethics, doing what's right (which seems to be seriously lacking in this market IMHO). I don't think the customer should have to pick up the phone once (unless it is to return their call). The customer should be put at the top of their "Priority List" and taken care of immediately. And if in the end, nothing can be done to resolve the problem to the customers satisfaction, then that tuner/dealer should, without any hesitation, offer a full refund and take back the parts. Maybe even some compensation for labor. But that didn't happen here with me..... Makes you wonder why they prefer the negative press.
After the dyno results and complaints of how the car just didn't seem to be running right were passed to Hoppen, not a whole lot happened on their part. They had everything I could give them at that point and knew what the problem was. As mentioned before, their response was to blame the gas, plugs, DVR,.. etc., and Joe Hoppen felt that the MTM SW was flawless and that it must be my car somehow. Well yeah, it's my car, but it's because I put this MTM Stage 1+ upgrade in it. It was running perfect before this.
The only thing they didn't have was VAGCOM readings from the car (although looking back, they had the perfect opportunity to do just that when I was at AMS having Marc dyno it and adjusting the timing back - as per Mike Hoppens instructions). You can see how that turned out from my prior post.
I also tried corresponding with Michael at Ikon Motorsport (where I purchased the MTM Stage 1+) to help communicate with Hoppen and try to resolve it. But even he ran into the same obstacle from Hoppen - lack of concern and difficulty with communication. The main problem though was dealing with Mike Hoppen (he's not very pleasant to deal with, nor helpful). I remember one of the first things he said to me was;"The dyno charts are useless.". Ok, I thought, even though it did prove that the claims were not being delivered and that "dialing" back the timing didn't help any, but maybe you could offer a little more constructive assistance instead of ridiculing my efforts to show you that something was not right here? I just wanted an answer and they didn't seem to be able to give me that. So later on, after some more wasted time and no answers, he asked for me to get some VAGCOM readings through Michael, but never specified exactly how, but just to get them (this was a sign of how difficult it was to be with getting any kind of a resolution to my problem, very condenscending attitude). Anyways, since I was having my Audi tech do this VAGCOM for me as a favor, I didn't know what exactly needed to be done (as I was no VAGCOM expert) and just said that I needed these "Blocks" read. And of course it wasn't what Mike Hoppen wanted and me and my tech were insulted by him. (In defense of my tech; he may be an Audi tech, but he's just doing what I ask of him, because he doesn't do any aftermarket tuning).
So, since what I got from him wasn't what Mike wanted, and instead of trying to be more clear about what he needed and helping me, he just became arrogant and ignored it. Michael kept after him though and was in full support of wanting to help get this situation resolved. But even he was tiring of it.
Later on (a few weeks), I managed to have someone local with the RossTech SW perform a VAGCOM reading and was able to get a "realtime" readout during two 0-80 mph runs with all the Blocks needed by Hoppen. I sent these to Hoppen and waited. Nothing.... Still nothing.... A while later, after talking with Michael, I find out that Mike Hoppen was not pleased by my earlier post and was purposely putting off finding a solution for my problem. I was stunned and furious. All those horror stories about Hoppen began to flash by. I'm thinking; "what the hell is it with them? How/why can they treat a customer like this and still be in business?" Not to mention all the verbal praise/support I give MTM products and the money I spent on it. This was just completely absurd. I really couldn't stand to try and call them though, because I knew it would just get ugly. When you reach that point and a tuner acts like this, there really isn't anything to discuss and it's time to get your money back or take legal action. It doesn't matter how much you discuss it. They know what is wrong and are obviously not concerned enough to take care of it. It's that typical circumstance where they have your money and thats that.
During this time too, the new NA Canadian MTM Importer, Horchaus, offered to help me out (Jet Jockey works with him). Let me first say that if the NA MTM Importer/Dist. was Horchaus, things would be a hell of a lot better for everyone. Benoit, the owner, seems to honestly care about his reputation and customer service (even though I was not a customer). If I were in Canada, I wouldn't be in this situation (at least I hope not). I sent them all the dyno, VAGCOM and car details, along with what was wrong. They did try, but had difficulties with obtaining fast answers from MTM due to vacation [MTM], language barriers and time differences. Just keep in mind that Horchaus was doing this out of their own good will and trying to help out an MTM customer. They didn't have to do it. Well, as time passed and Hoppen still just ignored my situation, I decided that I had had enough and would dump the MTM Stage 1+ SW and injectors and return my car to stock. I also wasn't about to lose $1350. Plus, I had already spent almost $500 trying to deal with this (dyno, different plugs, labor, my time,..etc).
So you're asking, did I get my money back. The answer is YES! <img src="http://www.audizine.com/forum/images/smilies/biggrin.gif"> I basically faxed a letter explaining to Joe Hoppen what the problem was and how disatisfied I was with both Hoppen Motorsport and MTM. I asked for a full refund and if I could not get satisfaction, that I would take legal action to get it back. Joe Hoppen thankfully understood and agreed to my request. I returned my car to stock (replacing the OEM injectors and shipping them back with my ECU to be put back to stock, another $30+ for Next-Day delivery too). It took two days to get it back though. In a weeks time after, the amount was refunded to Ikon (they couldn't do it direct to me), and Michael then quickly sent me a check for the full amount of $1350. I'm happy now, but still irritated by the whole ordeal. I'm just glad to be done with it. I'll never deal with Hoppen again (<i>"Hoppen's bad... mkay"</i>). I also find it hard to support MTM any longer because it directly supports Hoppen. I still think the MTM exhaust is the best, but I'm now divided with recommending it because I don't want to give business to Hoppen, or have other customers experience what I did. Is there something about MTM dealers in the US? Because it hasn't been exactly great with any of them except Ikon Motorsport (although I'm not even sure if Ikon will still be an MTM dealer after this).
MTM needs to seriously look at another NA Importer IMO. Which brings up the fact that I also sent a number of complaints to MTM in English and German about all my experiences with their products and dealers/importer, but never received a response. <img src="http://www.audizine.com/forum/images/smilies/mad.gif">
Moral of the story; deal with a local tuner and make sure it is proven for your vehicle/make/year and available octane (in my case, only CA 91). And make sure they understand that if it does not perform as claimed, you will want a full refund.
Now I can focus on my secret turbo project. <img src="http://www.audizine.com/forum/images/smilies/cool.gif">
And now this for your after reading, viewing pleasure...
<img src="http://www.image-hosting.net/images/digital/A4NCAR/127_2755.JPG">
<img src="http://www.image-hosting.net/images/digital/A4NCAR/duplicate_9966_Mr%20Mackey%20Sig.jpg">
09-24-2004, 02:40 PM
#2
AMS, GIAC, ;o) I've run both, happy with both, currently enjoying an AMS program
<img src="http://paul.socaleuro.com/audi/gallery/dynos_plots/FMIC_AMS_ST2_4.5_Bar_2.jpg">
<img src="http://paul.socaleuro.com/audi/gallery/dynos_plots/FMIC_AMS_ST2_4.5_Bar_3.jpg">
<img src="http://paul.socaleuro.com/audi/gallery/dynos_plots/FMIC_AMS_ST2_4.5_Bar_3.jpg">
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09-24-2004, 03:04 PM
#8
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Is there something about MTM dealers in the US... yea the fact that there isnt many of them, and
they can bully the customer because they know you have no place to go.
talk bout some **** luck, im thankful you posted this and diddnt hold back because of the past issue. thank you so much for all your help over the past couple months. -scott
talk bout some **** luck, im thankful you posted this and diddnt hold back because of the past issue. thank you so much for all your help over the past couple months. -scott
09-24-2004, 03:08 PM
#9
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Wow. Its never good when only a handful of people have mtm products, and one of the only few owners
has issues like this.
Good luck with whatever you go with next..
keep us updated!
Good luck with whatever you go with next..
keep us updated!
09-24-2004, 03:52 PM
#10
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let's hope Hoppen is not an advertiser here... ;-) good luck with what comes next.
I stuck with Revo just because there is a local tuner who is highly supportive and is only <7 miles from my residence (Pro-Imports)