Revo Software tuning dyno results on a MAHA 217HP & 215 ft/lb's torque
04-29-2004, 08:14 PM
#171
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"like you have on all your comparison runs"
um not sure what you mean.........we did....
Stock/smic vs. Stock/fmic
Giac/smic vs. Giac/fmic
Ams/smic vs. Ams/fmic
Ams/fmic vs. Ams4.5/fmic
ALL?
Stock/smic vs. Stock/fmic
Giac/smic vs. Giac/fmic
Ams/smic vs. Ams/fmic
Ams/fmic vs. Ams4.5/fmic
ALL?
04-29-2004, 09:10 PM
#172
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But I'd have to go with a bigger turbo just to push enough air to justify the...
...added volume lag. Bigger is not always better. Then again what if I just went with the right side RS4? The inlet/outlets are very close in positioning. Or both S4's so as not to impact volumetric efficiency? Just one S4 may be enough? Or maybe, just maybe, Audi got it right already? 
I just loved that another respected tuner had to go so far as to include a "Why we chose SMIC's" page to placate the non-believers and cool off the zealots.
I did see that one S4 at the SB show that had cut out the center bumper section to expose the entire front of the massive FMIC. It had ducting all around so that wasn't going anywhere. Not practical for a daily driver and it wouldn't take long for the SBPD to find it violates NHTSA and DOT regulations as an "illegal" vehicle. Still, this guy was going all out to favor the FMIC as much as theoretically possible.
I think what Achtuning meant to say was their engine, that had the FMIC, produced 30 HP more. The IC only lets you keep power, not produce it (I know you know this but I do need to protect the innocent.) They still lost to a DSMIC, didn't they?
The problems with watercooled IC's are added weight, complexity, more failure modes, and you have to either add another radiator to cool the water or only get as cool as your main radiator is running. Great for hi-temp racing turbos but again not really practical for a daily driver. Not that our cars aren't heavy enough already. Noooo.
Air-to-Air is what we're stuck with and I can now add AWE to those who have accepted both science and truth.
I just loved that another respected tuner had to go so far as to include a "Why we chose SMIC's" page to placate the non-believers and cool off the zealots.
I did see that one S4 at the SB show that had cut out the center bumper section to expose the entire front of the massive FMIC. It had ducting all around so that wasn't going anywhere. Not practical for a daily driver and it wouldn't take long for the SBPD to find it violates NHTSA and DOT regulations as an "illegal" vehicle. Still, this guy was going all out to favor the FMIC as much as theoretically possible.
I think what Achtuning meant to say was their engine, that had the FMIC, produced 30 HP more. The IC only lets you keep power, not produce it (I know you know this but I do need to protect the innocent.) They still lost to a DSMIC, didn't they?
The problems with watercooled IC's are added weight, complexity, more failure modes, and you have to either add another radiator to cool the water or only get as cool as your main radiator is running. Great for hi-temp racing turbos but again not really practical for a daily driver. Not that our cars aren't heavy enough already. Noooo.
Air-to-Air is what we're stuck with and I can now add AWE to those who have accepted both science and truth.
04-29-2004, 09:56 PM
#175
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While you were out....
What really happened on the Achtuning S4 was, they dyno'd the car with RS4 smic's.
Then they dyno'd the car with DUH Fmic and cams and gained 40whp.
Since then, the DUH Fmic has been dyno'd over 100 times, each time averaging about 26whp Peak Gain at the wheel, over S4 coolers.
We'll have more dyno's tomorrow....
If you would "like" to say fmic's don't make power, they recover lost power, then you could also saw RS4 coolers "loose" power when compared to fmic, it's all about grammar.
So if you show up at a Supra meet and they say "Hey, I "gained" 40whp when I bolted on an fmic, be sure to correct them, all they did was remove the smic that was loosing 40whp.
And why not say that stock cars are "loosing" 30whp from only having stock boost.
You can surely see the "double standard" regarding intercoolers....
IF you want to say an S4 is "gaining" power from this mod or that, because it dyno's or traps faster, then you must say it's "gaining" when the power jumps up 30whp with an fmic, or larger turbo, or larger exhaust.......
Then they dyno'd the car with DUH Fmic and cams and gained 40whp.
Since then, the DUH Fmic has been dyno'd over 100 times, each time averaging about 26whp Peak Gain at the wheel, over S4 coolers.
We'll have more dyno's tomorrow....
If you would "like" to say fmic's don't make power, they recover lost power, then you could also saw RS4 coolers "loose" power when compared to fmic, it's all about grammar.
So if you show up at a Supra meet and they say "Hey, I "gained" 40whp when I bolted on an fmic, be sure to correct them, all they did was remove the smic that was loosing 40whp.
And why not say that stock cars are "loosing" 30whp from only having stock boost.
You can surely see the "double standard" regarding intercoolers....
IF you want to say an S4 is "gaining" power from this mod or that, because it dyno's or traps faster, then you must say it's "gaining" when the power jumps up 30whp with an fmic, or larger turbo, or larger exhaust.......
04-30-2004, 06:16 AM
#176
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Aren't all these engines producing in excess of 400 HP?
We're no longer talking about a measly 200 HP, are we? Or even 250? And some of the figures also include other mods (like cams, etc.) along with being different blends of SMIC's (S4, RS4, but not AWE's custom IC's).
What I like about AWE's published numbers on the DSMIC's is they show the efficiency of the IC by the degrees of temp they drop. If measured in a moving car it eliminates a number of other variables and focuses more on isolating the particular contribution of the IC design and placement.
What I like about AWE's published numbers on the DSMIC's is they show the efficiency of the IC by the degrees of temp they drop. If measured in a moving car it eliminates a number of other variables and focuses more on isolating the particular contribution of the IC design and placement.
04-30-2004, 08:05 PM
#178
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Todd's cooler are excellent as is the data published about them
<center><img src="http://www.duhengineering.com/img/dyno/s4/S4iat.gif"></center><p>All I had time for was just a simple IAT of each setup.
04-30-2004, 10:36 PM
#179
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OK, help me with this. This shows the degrees of heat removed from...
...the turbo outlet air? And, at least with the units shown here, the dual SMIC's did best? Awesome numbers. Thanks!
However, in the IC/core design, selection, and sizing literature there are calculations to approximate an optimum size for a given turbo output and efficiency. Too big and you're losing boost pressure and inducing volumetric lag. Too small and you're heat soaked. So rather than one size fits all, isn't there some tweaking involved to optimize a particular setup?
However, in the IC/core design, selection, and sizing literature there are calculations to approximate an optimum size for a given turbo output and efficiency. Too big and you're losing boost pressure and inducing volumetric lag. Too small and you're heat soaked. So rather than one size fits all, isn't there some tweaking involved to optimize a particular setup?
05-01-2004, 11:13 AM
#180
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No, this is an IAT chart, showing the actual temp after the cooler
gas likes colder air, DUH.
Luckily most of the turbos that end up on our cars are close enough in flow size that you get about the same throttle response on one core design with different turbos.
Luckily most of the turbos that end up on our cars are close enough in flow size that you get about the same throttle response on one core design with different turbos.