Xmas money is here :) Time to mod.... what should i get??
12-25-2004, 03:52 PM
#22
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Agreed. Whatever you plan on doing, definitely let your dealer know.
It will help them diagnose any problems you may have. And they WILL know that you've modded your car, regardless of what you do, you might as well be upfront and honest about it. If you're honest, they're going to have a much better attitude towards helping you fix whatever problems you might have with your car.
12-25-2004, 03:59 PM
#23
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Any TUV approved chip...
Check out AMS, MTM, Dahlback, Oettinger, OCT (am I missing any here guys?)
Just to be clear on something: Even with a non TUV approved chip (REVO, Neuspeed, APR, GIAC), the Audi Dealer may not necessarily void your warranty. The burden of proof rests on Audi to prove that the chip is causing problems that would lead to voiding your warranty.
Go with TUV approved software. Some of the TUV chips cost a little more, but you're getting more guarentees with the TUV approved software and in many cases, far superior performance benefits.
Just to be clear on something: Even with a non TUV approved chip (REVO, Neuspeed, APR, GIAC), the Audi Dealer may not necessarily void your warranty. The burden of proof rests on Audi to prove that the chip is causing problems that would lead to voiding your warranty.
Go with TUV approved software. Some of the TUV chips cost a little more, but you're getting more guarentees with the TUV approved software and in many cases, far superior performance benefits.
12-25-2004, 05:15 PM
#24
BS!! BS!! BS!! Absolutely WRONG advice!
This is absolutely WRONG!
FYI, TUV is the German government regulatory body for automotive safety and standards. Their version of our DOT.
But, as least in America, Canada and probably most other parts of the world, any aftermarket parts are expressly against the terms of the warranty. True, Moss-Magnuson, SEMA, etc. say that only parts of the car directly attributable to the installed part are voided, the burden of proof in actuality is on you. (The other part of the law says that they can't automatically void your warranty if you get service done at an independent.)
This means that they can't blame non-functioning power seats on your ECU chip. But what often happens is that the dealer will tell you you're SOL and then you go around arguing, making phone calls and getting a lawyer before they cave in.
In some parts of Europe, there are some aftermarket parts/chips that are approved by the LOCAL IMPORTER and installed by Audi dealers. This is definitely not the case here.
To tell this guy to just go ahead and get an MTM chip and he's clean is just wrong.
FYI, TUV is the German government regulatory body for automotive safety and standards. Their version of our DOT.
But, as least in America, Canada and probably most other parts of the world, any aftermarket parts are expressly against the terms of the warranty. True, Moss-Magnuson, SEMA, etc. say that only parts of the car directly attributable to the installed part are voided, the burden of proof in actuality is on you. (The other part of the law says that they can't automatically void your warranty if you get service done at an independent.)
This means that they can't blame non-functioning power seats on your ECU chip. But what often happens is that the dealer will tell you you're SOL and then you go around arguing, making phone calls and getting a lawyer before they cave in.
In some parts of Europe, there are some aftermarket parts/chips that are approved by the LOCAL IMPORTER and installed by Audi dealers. This is definitely not the case here.
To tell this guy to just go ahead and get an MTM chip and he's clean is just wrong.
12-25-2004, 05:26 PM
#25
More fallacies.
You do realize that the European chips off the shelf won't necessarily be optimal or even work the same over here, right? Different emissions equipment, fuel, etc. means that to do it right the code might have to be re-written or at least fine tuned for US cars anyway.
Who's gonna do that rewriting? Yup, likely a US-based entity that may or may not just be subcontracted by the German tuner.
So what exactly are the guarantees you get now?
Who's gonna do that rewriting? Yup, likely a US-based entity that may or may not just be subcontracted by the German tuner.
So what exactly are the guarantees you get now?
12-25-2004, 05:32 PM
#26
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I didn't say that he's clean just by getting an MTM chip...
Consider this, the Audi dealers in my area don't care if you have a chip. I don't think any of them really have reason to unless the chip effects the car in an abnormal way. My buddy has an MTM chip and Audi tried to deny him service and he called up AoA, and they said that because MTM is TUV approved, that the dealership has no reason to deny his car any type of servicing.
12-25-2004, 05:37 PM
#27
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How is that a fallacy?
Local importers like JHM configure the software for US oil. And its still configured on a much higher level than any non TUV approved tuner.
When I had REVO (nonTUV) approved, my car's level of performance varied depending on where I got my fuel. My brother who has GIAC software on his b5 has the same problem. Thats why so many people complain about Neuspeeds software. It works great in Cali because its tuned to perform on Cali's fuel, but over here on the east coast, it makes cars run barely above stock level.
Meanwhile my buddy with MTM software can get the cheapest no name fuel and his car will run just as well as it does with 93 octance Shell fuel.
When I had REVO (nonTUV) approved, my car's level of performance varied depending on where I got my fuel. My brother who has GIAC software on his b5 has the same problem. Thats why so many people complain about Neuspeeds software. It works great in Cali because its tuned to perform on Cali's fuel, but over here on the east coast, it makes cars run barely above stock level.
Meanwhile my buddy with MTM software can get the cheapest no name fuel and his car will run just as well as it does with 93 octance Shell fuel.
12-25-2004, 05:42 PM
#28
What do you call "your warranty cannot be voided if you get TUV approved"?
Apologies if this is some new-style English slang from opposite/Bizzaro world that I don't understand.
And I hope your buddy got that discussion with the AoA rep on tape because I will bet money that he'll never get corraboration if he calls again. And there are dozens if not hundreds of others on these forums here at AW where AoA has either taken a hardline stance or said that was a "dealer issue".
Yes, there are mod friendly dealers and the best thing someone who wants to mod can do is find them and develop a good rapport. They CAN go to bat for you. But for major repairs, such as blown turbos, the regional AoA rep will often insist on checking out the car him/herself.
It's case by case. But the official policy is clear: any non-factory part is a No-No.
And I hope your buddy got that discussion with the AoA rep on tape because I will bet money that he'll never get corraboration if he calls again. And there are dozens if not hundreds of others on these forums here at AW where AoA has either taken a hardline stance or said that was a "dealer issue".
Yes, there are mod friendly dealers and the best thing someone who wants to mod can do is find them and develop a good rapport. They CAN go to bat for you. But for major repairs, such as blown turbos, the regional AoA rep will often insist on checking out the car him/herself.
It's case by case. But the official policy is clear: any non-factory part is a No-No.
12-25-2004, 05:48 PM
#29
That boils down to quality of the new US-specific code.
A smart consumer figures out which is best for his/her needs, based on locality, fuel, driving style, tolerance for risk, etc.
Uh... if TUV is a German government approval and the US chip is by your own words configured for US oil, how is that still TUV approved? Does that make any sense to you?
So the United States DOT approves something here, but I modify it to work in Germany or Japan or wherever, the DOT approval is still valid? Why would they even care?
And furthermore, TUV is NOT Audi. Audi ships a product. Would you warranty something that's been changed once it's left your hands? Maybe that's a law in Germany -- I don't know for sure. But it ain't the law here.
Uh... if TUV is a German government approval and the US chip is by your own words configured for US oil, how is that still TUV approved? Does that make any sense to you?
So the United States DOT approves something here, but I modify it to work in Germany or Japan or wherever, the DOT approval is still valid? Why would they even care?
And furthermore, TUV is NOT Audi. Audi ships a product. Would you warranty something that's been changed once it's left your hands? Maybe that's a law in Germany -- I don't know for sure. But it ain't the law here.
12-25-2004, 05:58 PM
#30
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I'm just sharing the experience between my buddy calling AoA
About his dealership and the way they handled him. He works in a shop here and he is extremely knowledgable about tuning Audis so I'm sure that what he said is true. But I'll call him just for you to get the specifics 
And I agree with what you said about mod friendly dealers. Thats why I said to be honest and talk to your dealer about your plans. They are much happier to help you out when you're honest rather than they have to spend hours diagnosing a problem when they could have figured it out in 10 minutes if they'd known the car with the problem was chipped.
I've talked to my dealer/techs about mods. They don't really care, they just hate when people aren't honest about it. But as always, you gotta pay to play, if you blow your turbo from running too much boost, your warranty isn't going to save you.
And I agree with what you said about mod friendly dealers. Thats why I said to be honest and talk to your dealer about your plans. They are much happier to help you out when you're honest rather than they have to spend hours diagnosing a problem when they could have figured it out in 10 minutes if they'd known the car with the problem was chipped.
I've talked to my dealer/techs about mods. They don't really care, they just hate when people aren't honest about it. But as always, you gotta pay to play, if you blow your turbo from running too much boost, your warranty isn't going to save you.