geordiestig

Hello, I am looking for some help with my A4 Quattro TFSI, I have spent 6 weeks scouring the internet for pointers on trouble shooting the problems without success, I have also spent money on diagnostics which I may as well have thrown the money down the drain as they did not find the fault.

Ok, quick synopsis of the problems:

1.
Fault code P0171 persists, cleaned MAF, smoke tested the engine and replaced a faulty PCV breather valve.

2.
Car hunts at idle, throttle body removed and cleaned, performed throttle body reset by switching the car ignition on without starting the engine, pressed throttle for 3 seconds, turned ignition off and waited 2 min's before starting the engine - made no difference.

3.
Engine runs rough and the drive is not smooth, engine braking e.g changing down from 4th to 2nd does not slow the car down, feels very jerky and revs take a while to settle e.g will hold at say 2K RPM whilst engine braking, revving the car whilst stationary revs fall slowly upon releasing foot from throttle.

So to summarise what has been done mechanically:

Cleaned MAF.
Cleaned Throttle Body.
Smoke test to find vacuum leak.
Car was serviced 3 weeks ago, oil, filters et al.
Turbo electronic dump valve removed and inspected, new improved unit has already been installed.
Coil packs changed 3 weeks ago under warranty from Audi in Newcastle.


I have had it on VCDS at 3 different mechanics, they are all stumped as to what the problem is.

I have my own diagnostics software which is very good and have been doing some intense data logging which I have dumped in to Excel to see if I can spot any anomalies, all looks good.

Turbo boost is fine and reaches around 15PSI, MAF sensor is fine and reads 160g/s at ma power output which is correct as the car is a standard 200BHP therefore MAF reading is 80% of BHP thus 80% of 200 is 160.

Fuel rail pressure is fine, ~1500PSI at redline.

So, the fault code P0171 Bank 1 too lean at idle persists even after clearing the code it returns.

From time to time P0089 Suction control valve stuck open pops up, but goes away on its own.

I did not smoke test the engine, it was done at a local VW specialist, however I sprayed isopropanol around the hose works and manifolds in the engine to see if I could detect a change in the note whilst the engine was running, no joy there.

So, I am really stuck now as I have exhausted everything within my ability to find the problem and even the professionals are giving me the cold shoulder now as they can not find the fault and I do not wish to spend any more money on folk telling me they cant find the cause of the fault.

Any help you guys could provide will be much appreciated,

Kind Regards

Rob.

geordiestig

Ignore previous plea for help, engine going in for rebuild - problem sorted.

geordiestig

Ok, after spending loads of money on finding the route cause of fault code P0171, rough idle, revs holding high whilst engine braking and lumpy performance I think I might have found the problem.
After checking the MAF, replacing the PCV, checking for vacuum and air leaks and spending fortunes on diagnostics I managed to get a schematic drawing of the TFSI engine from some hooky website dishing up VAG internal documentation, so lets walk through this from day 1 addressing each step taken:

1. Bought the car from dealer in Scotland, got the car home and noticed really bad idle and revving at junctions, scanned ECU and found P0171 Bank 1 too lean.

2. Searched forums for identification of symptoms, advised to do the PCV test by pulling the dip stick or the oil cap off whilst the engine was running, failed that test so replaced the PCV which resolved the rough idle and revving whilst in neutral.

3. The fault code P0171 persisted and paid several "VAG specialists" to diagnose the fault, no joy they came to the same conclusion that they could not find any fault.

4. Took the car to Revolution in Dunston and asked them to look at the problem, another dead end.
Promised to call me back the following day and discuss the test results from VAGCOM with possible solutions, never got the call - after waiting two hours over my initial booked appointment for them to pi$$ me about and not have the decency to contact me as arranged, safe to say they will not have any repeat business.

5. Had the car serviced at Swift Motor Engineering in Westerhope and they had the engine smoke tested, was told the possible cause of the P0171 fault was due to the PCV valve I purchased from GSF Car Parts as it was not a OEM part, this is not the case.

6. After speaking to BFT John he advised me to check the MAF Sensor by replacement, thanks for the help John, firstly I removed the entire MAF assembly and cleaned the actual MAF Sensor unit which I removed from the tubular housing - the MAF was brand new and cleaning made no difference so called in to Vee Dubb's down Bill Quay in Gateshead and swapped my MAF for another unit, results exactly the same so the MAF was ruled out as being faulty.

7. The guy at Vee Dubb's removed and inspected the Turbo Diverter Valve solenoid unit and we concluded that was ok, it was new and the improved version over the old problematic unit so that was ruled out as the source of the air leak.

8. I took the car home and removed the throttle body and checked the motor gear and electronics, all seemed fine with that, cleaned the small amount of crud from the butterfly anyway as I went to the trouble of removing it.

9. So, after having the car scanned several times with VAGCOM (cost me each time!) and using my own ODBII Software (Torque) which very good for the few quid I paid for it, I performed several road tests, each time performing data-logging on each journey then loading these test results in to an excel pivot table so I could graph the what the engine was doing over the course of 20 test drives using mixed driving styles.
The results of these tests are that each element of the engine was performing correctly and within tolerance, turbo boosting fine, MAF reading fine, BHP at wheels - as expected, 02 Lambda within limits etc etc.
So, where next?

10.
Booked the car in to my old faithful no-frills mechanic and had the car all day at a cost of £10, I gave him £20 for his trouble, this yielded no results other than the throttle body being a possible suspect.

11. Ok, so now I am at a dead end, what could be the problem, I am a software engineer not a mechanic so my skills are limited - or are they, I took a step back and started reading the engine diagrams that I obtained and started looking at every possible way that un-metered air could enter the TFSI Motor, I worked from the Air Intake and went right out the entire system, including the rocker cover and PCV system and ended up at the final system that interacts with the air/fuel combination of the engine - the EVAP re-circulation.
I studied this system from VAG documentation and internet chatter and as most of you may know, the EVAP system receives Petrol fumes from the fuel tank, passed through a charcoal canister, mixed with air and fed in to the intake manifold via the N80 valve.
Now, what would happen if this valve was faulty? Well depends on how it fails, in my case I have drawn the conclusion that the valve was stuck open and the air/fuel vapour was mostly air due to the valve being stuck open, thus un-metered air getting in to the intake manifold causing the problems I have been experiencing.

Hope this helps and saves you a few quid and months of headaches.

Cheers

Rob.

Shanster

I feel like I'm always suggesting this (so forgive the broken record), but a lot of times, pieces of the cam follower get jammed in the N80 valve when the cam follower gets worn through, thus leaving the valve open. When people do the cam follower extended warranty service(cam follower, HPFP, in-take cam shaft), almost always the N80 never gets replaced and it really should be because of what I mentioned above.

So with that, have you checked your cam follower recently? That could have been the reason the N80 was stuck open.

Shanster

Also, if you have the time, this is a good read...

http://www.audizine.com/forum/showth...ucation-Thread

Prospeeder

There are bulletins on defective Fuel injectors causing misfires, poor running, lean codes. There is also a check valve in the larger hose coming off the valve cover that goes to the intake somewhere. I have replaced that on 2.0T cars that have lean at idle codes and running poor.