Need to turn my new A4 into an Evo killer and I can't find the parts!
12-04-2005, 02:27 PM
#11
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I doubt the FSi can be modded much...
..at least that's what the guys at Abt and Oettinger told me. I understood from them that FSi engines already give most of what they can, and nobody has struggled to produce chips or any kind of engine tuning for them because it would be useless. So you probably should've opted for the 2.0T .
T.
T.
12-04-2005, 04:26 PM
#13
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You might want to see if you can track down these guys:
Melvill Priest and Team VMP Motorsport Audi run a modified B7 3.2 in the Vodaphone Power Tour production car championships. They race against modded 350Z's, 330i's and Alfa Romeo 147 GTA's.
They've managed to get a 5.1 second 0-100km out of the 3.2 which is pretty good (about a second off stock), but that's unlikely to beat a tuned Evo.<ul><li><a href="http://motoring.iafrica.com/sa_motorsport/477489.htm">Click for link</a></li></ul>
They've managed to get a 5.1 second 0-100km out of the 3.2 which is pretty good (about a second off stock), but that's unlikely to beat a tuned Evo.<ul><li><a href="http://motoring.iafrica.com/sa_motorsport/477489.htm">Click for link</a></li></ul>
12-04-2005, 04:33 PM
#14
Well if you wanted to do it as hard and expensive as possible...
and probably end up with less potential performance in a car you might end up not being able to drive on the street legally, then yeah....you bought the right version of the A4.
But what do I know? I'd never try to hunt rice buckets in an Audi anyway.
But what do I know? I'd never try to hunt rice buckets in an Audi anyway.
12-04-2005, 04:45 PM
#15
Lots to think about with tuning the 3.1FSI...
An S2000 is absolutely nothing to work on compared to this car. There are even bolt on supercharger kits for that car. The engine management is a slice of heaven compared to this. Nothing like that exists for this car.
The me9 engine management is extremely sophisticated and running standalone on these cars would necessitate killing DBW. That's an option for you. I'd look into the "034i" stand-alone and autronic although they have nothing at this time but perhaps with enough money they could do something to get a turbo or supercharger running. You'd need some one to custom build every piece so the 20 grand would be conservative. I'm not saying it cant be done at all, just that you will be spending about 3-10 times as much to get the same power as you could on a turbo version A4 with less reliability due to no long-term testing. There is not a single shop that is yet familar with tuning the V6 FSI motor so going to look up shops is fine, but they will first have to learn about the motor. It is completely different from the old technology and it will take some time. Make sure they don't apply old tuning philosphy they used on the old v6 cars to the new ones. To give you an idea how difficult this road may be, the B6 S4 has been around for two years and for that time there has been only one supercharger kit available for it (MTM). The cost of the kit is 20 thousand dollars and that is not even a "one-off" custom kit. The other company, MOTODYNE, has been trying for the last two years to get a more cost effective kit and they cant even get the car to run better than a stock S4. It runs worse.
Most of the reputable companies are too busy with their bread and butter lineups so they will be too busy to to a "one off" kit for a v6 car since they likely wont be able to sell many. So you will have to turn to shops/tuners who are a bit more willing and have the time to take a risk. I just can't think of any I would trust, but try HPA. Whatever shop you choose, be very careful selecting them. Ask them if they have a genuine 5052 diagnostics machine for the new Audi. Ask them what they know about the FSI motor and how they plan to learn about it. Make sure to ask them tough questions. I had a shop look at my B6 and promise me the world once. Shop owner tells me no problem he'll be having me running a full stand-alone with any turbo I want. Everything can be done custom to my wants. Good thing I knew to ask questions and called up the stand-alone company who said they absolutely do not support this application. The guy was used to working on VW cars and really would have jacked this car up. Good luck with the project and let us know how it comes along. It will be interesting to see what you can get it to do. cheers! Mike
The me9 engine management is extremely sophisticated and running standalone on these cars would necessitate killing DBW. That's an option for you. I'd look into the "034i" stand-alone and autronic although they have nothing at this time but perhaps with enough money they could do something to get a turbo or supercharger running. You'd need some one to custom build every piece so the 20 grand would be conservative. I'm not saying it cant be done at all, just that you will be spending about 3-10 times as much to get the same power as you could on a turbo version A4 with less reliability due to no long-term testing. There is not a single shop that is yet familar with tuning the V6 FSI motor so going to look up shops is fine, but they will first have to learn about the motor. It is completely different from the old technology and it will take some time. Make sure they don't apply old tuning philosphy they used on the old v6 cars to the new ones. To give you an idea how difficult this road may be, the B6 S4 has been around for two years and for that time there has been only one supercharger kit available for it (MTM). The cost of the kit is 20 thousand dollars and that is not even a "one-off" custom kit. The other company, MOTODYNE, has been trying for the last two years to get a more cost effective kit and they cant even get the car to run better than a stock S4. It runs worse.
Most of the reputable companies are too busy with their bread and butter lineups so they will be too busy to to a "one off" kit for a v6 car since they likely wont be able to sell many. So you will have to turn to shops/tuners who are a bit more willing and have the time to take a risk. I just can't think of any I would trust, but try HPA. Whatever shop you choose, be very careful selecting them. Ask them if they have a genuine 5052 diagnostics machine for the new Audi. Ask them what they know about the FSI motor and how they plan to learn about it. Make sure to ask them tough questions. I had a shop look at my B6 and promise me the world once. Shop owner tells me no problem he'll be having me running a full stand-alone with any turbo I want. Everything can be done custom to my wants. Good thing I knew to ask questions and called up the stand-alone company who said they absolutely do not support this application. The guy was used to working on VW cars and really would have jacked this car up. Good luck with the project and let us know how it comes along. It will be interesting to see what you can get it to do. cheers! Mike
12-04-2005, 05:19 PM
#16
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not with an A4... your best bet in the audi line up is..
a stage 3+ B5 S4. and even with that... a crazy modded Evo (like the AMS 600 wheel evo) will destroy a stage 3+ B5 S4.
Just know that you bought an Audi for it's luxury, fit and finish, yada yada.
I'd much rather have a "slower" B7 A4 over an Evo. But that's my preference.
Just know that you bought an Audi for it's luxury, fit and finish, yada yada.
I'd much rather have a "slower" B7 A4 over an Evo. But that's my preference.
12-04-2005, 07:34 PM
#17
Mods I'd start with:
It's a fun thought. Your world is different than mine, but what interests me is to have something for track days with lots of performance, that would still be lighter and more practical than an S4 the rest of the time.
But the platform I think of is a 3-door A3 quattro, which of course we don't have yet. But we might get it, and even a Diesel could get interesting from a performance standpoint.
But your new A4 is an awfully heavy car. You might want to consider shaving 600lbs...
<img src="http://pictureposter.audiworld.com/81746/164407_lg.jpg">
<img src="http://pictureposter.audiworld.com/81746/pl151900av_175.jpg">
<img src="http://pictureposter.audiworld.com/81746/pl154000av_175.jpg">
But the platform I think of is a 3-door A3 quattro, which of course we don't have yet. But we might get it, and even a Diesel could get interesting from a performance standpoint.
But your new A4 is an awfully heavy car. You might want to consider shaving 600lbs...
<img src="http://pictureposter.audiworld.com/81746/164407_lg.jpg">
<img src="http://pictureposter.audiworld.com/81746/pl151900av_175.jpg">
<img src="http://pictureposter.audiworld.com/81746/pl154000av_175.jpg">
12-04-2005, 09:37 PM
#18
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Money can solve any problems. Read on...
Working in R&D with Superchips (lots of tuning/modification dyno and track experience) for 4 years, one of the many things I learned:
It's all about money.
I had my 03 cobra in the 11's for a few hundred bucks, and the 10's for a few grand.
With the right amount of money (and broken parts, fabrication, testing, R&D, etc....
an A4 can run 10's too....but do you have $50k (trust me, the money goes FAST) to spend to do it?
You chose a car that hasn't done what you are asking of it, and you will go through painstaking, expensive headaches just to make the SUPPORTING mods necessary (suspension, prototype cv shafts, clutch, turbo/fuel system upgrades, engine upgrades (or complete swapping).
With an unknown like this car, it could all be done for $10,K, 20k, 30k or 150k for all you know.
That's the nature of R&D.
It's a simple calculation of power to weight ratio.
For some perspective:
An 03 cobra at 3600 lbs needs 440 RWHP (mind you, this is with nearly 500 ft lbs of torque and ALL AT THE TIRE) to run 11's and nearly 600 HP at the tire to get well into the 10's.
I choose the 03 cobra because it too does not have an ideal drag suspension. The rearend is an IRS and must be gingerly launched (60' times are commonly 1.7-1.8 sec).
Fortunately, the cobra has a 4 cam v8 with forged internals........ and one BIG stock blower that can be pullied and ported (and done cheap).
Hell, you can change the IRS to a straight axle on the cobra quite cost effectively (I did exactly this) and really nail it out of the hole with some slicks.
Hell, they take even to nitrous well and can make 700 ft lbs at the tire on STOCK engine internals. 9's are possible with more mods, even 8's if you have a thick wallet for supporting mods and engine mods.
What makes it cheap (aside from the car cost)?
It's been done, and the engine can support the power it needs without breaking.
You will empty your wallet trying to make the A4 do this, it doesn't have the displacement, fuel system, dynamics, design, etc...
If you do it (and I'm sure it CAN be done), my hats off to you, but it would be just plain silly.
For 30K, you can buy a low mileage, correctly modified turn-key 10 second 03-04 cobra....perfectly suitable as a daily driver.
Drivability is not compromised (due to tuning guys like me and Fords hackable electronics =o)
For $25-27K you can get one running consistent 11's.
Buy and drive. Done.
If darg racing is what you want, why on EARTH would you buy an A4?
I will drag again, and when I do it will be with a car that can do it.
For now I'll enjoy my heated seats, 30+ mpg, and great fit/finish
It's all about money.
I had my 03 cobra in the 11's for a few hundred bucks, and the 10's for a few grand.
With the right amount of money (and broken parts, fabrication, testing, R&D, etc....
an A4 can run 10's too....but do you have $50k (trust me, the money goes FAST) to spend to do it?
You chose a car that hasn't done what you are asking of it, and you will go through painstaking, expensive headaches just to make the SUPPORTING mods necessary (suspension, prototype cv shafts, clutch, turbo/fuel system upgrades, engine upgrades (or complete swapping).
With an unknown like this car, it could all be done for $10,K, 20k, 30k or 150k for all you know.
That's the nature of R&D.
It's a simple calculation of power to weight ratio.
For some perspective:
An 03 cobra at 3600 lbs needs 440 RWHP (mind you, this is with nearly 500 ft lbs of torque and ALL AT THE TIRE) to run 11's and nearly 600 HP at the tire to get well into the 10's.
I choose the 03 cobra because it too does not have an ideal drag suspension. The rearend is an IRS and must be gingerly launched (60' times are commonly 1.7-1.8 sec).
Fortunately, the cobra has a 4 cam v8 with forged internals........ and one BIG stock blower that can be pullied and ported (and done cheap).
Hell, you can change the IRS to a straight axle on the cobra quite cost effectively (I did exactly this) and really nail it out of the hole with some slicks.
Hell, they take even to nitrous well and can make 700 ft lbs at the tire on STOCK engine internals. 9's are possible with more mods, even 8's if you have a thick wallet for supporting mods and engine mods.
What makes it cheap (aside from the car cost)?
It's been done, and the engine can support the power it needs without breaking.
You will empty your wallet trying to make the A4 do this, it doesn't have the displacement, fuel system, dynamics, design, etc...
If you do it (and I'm sure it CAN be done), my hats off to you, but it would be just plain silly.
For 30K, you can buy a low mileage, correctly modified turn-key 10 second 03-04 cobra....perfectly suitable as a daily driver.
Drivability is not compromised (due to tuning guys like me and Fords hackable electronics =o)
For $25-27K you can get one running consistent 11's.
Buy and drive. Done.
If darg racing is what you want, why on EARTH would you buy an A4?
I will drag again, and when I do it will be with a car that can do it.
For now I'll enjoy my heated seats, 30+ mpg, and great fit/finish
12-04-2005, 09:51 PM
#19
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Re: Need to turn my new A4 into an Evo killer and I can't find the parts!
I think <a href="http://www.abt-sportsline.de/news/index.php?sprache=e&flash=ok&id=821&webid=2&sprach e=e&flash=ok">this</a> could do the job. Big $$$
12-05-2005, 09:07 AM
#20
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Thanks for the info and an update
Thanks for all the info guys. I will definetely look into the links you gave me. I dropped the car off at my mechanics this morning. From the sound of things he's going to have it for a while. He's going to call HBA and see about adapting the TT kit to my car. If it's possible then thats a good starting place. I had over $35K in the engine, and transmission of my S2000 so I have an idea of what it will take to make my Audi fly. I wish I'd done a little research before I got the car, I probably would have gone with the turbo 4. If need be I can always trade it in on a turbo 4. Main reasosn I went Audi is I wanted a fast AWD car that would stand out from the crowd. Theres too many built Evo's and WRX's running around. A built Audi would really be different. Just out of curiosity what kind of aftermarket parts are available for the turbo 4? Some links please. Thanks for the info. I really appreciate it.