Sundowner

riiight.
becuase the strategy of trying to sell more cars than anyone else has worked SO WELL for EVERY SINGLE manufacturer that has tried it on the past 20 years.

the problem is ALWAYS the same: you can't be the biggest by trying tosell lots of cars people love, becuase love is a subjective thing. The ONLY way to be the biggest requires selling lots of cars that people don't hate. To do this, you need to make the cars bland and boring. Then, no one wants your cars anymore.

This is what happened to GM, this is what is happening to Toyota, and VAG isn't careful, this is what will happen to them.

Laugh if you want, but it's a time proven principle that alienating the core supporters of a brand only makes them leave the brand. There is no marketing metric, no quantifiable way of measuring what happens when these people, these opinion makers, pull stakes on a brand, but the net effect is always the same.

It's not something you learn in Buisness School, its something you learn in grade school: the masses want the stuff the cool kids want. When the cool kids stop wanting your stuff, the masses will follow regardless of marketing campaigns, celebrity endorsements, or LED headlights.

Audi NEEDS halo versions of each model. Let the cool kids buy the S4's, Avants, and Allroads with stickshifts. The masses will take note and come in to see the 'cool' cars in the showroom. For every cool kid in a $50k S4 or Allroad stick shift, 10 of the masses will come in to look at it in the showroom. They won't leave with it, but they will leave with that $33k A4 Premium over there sitting next to it with the automatic transmission.

You know this is true. Just look at those rediculous Ugg boots. They're ugly and expensive, but a few of the right cheerleaders wear them around JFK high school, the rest of the girls will want them, too.

gunsmoker

Very thoughtful, especially about the UGGs! However, for the life of me I don't see how the Allroad can be made attractive to cool kids. There is too much practicality in that vehicle and practical is never a cool thing.

Sundowner

sadly, practicality is rarely cool, and the Allroad NEEDS impracticality injected into it via a 3.0T and/or 3.0 TDI, and a stickshift. Somethng practical that is forced into impracticality? That's cool to the highest level, just on grounds of intrinisc irony.

Seriously, though. I have Cadillac begging me to buy a 500hp stick shift sedan or wagon so they can look cool, and Buick (BUICK!!) is begging me to buy a Regal GS next year that (lo and behold) only comes as a stick. Why would car brands known for mass market appeal offer a stick option ona high-zoot car? Beucase non-geriatrics smiling behind the wheel on the highway is the best marketing going.

gunsmoker

I loved the Bangle designs. I admire most original things. I'd take any Bangle design over the current 5 and 7 series.

It's a lot about attention to details. Most people don't have this trait and that prevents them from seeing the ingenuity of a design. They need to be talked through it and then they start to love it.

Take the Terry Gilliam's Brazil movie for example. Most people just don't get it the first time they see it. What they don't realize is that a truly ingenious creation is one that shows you a new bling every time you look at it, stuff that you never saw before and that never ceases to amaze you. It took that movie many years to become the cult that it is. See its rating at rottentomatoes.com.

Car designs that make you discover new details with the years can only grow on you and I hope the B8 is one of them.

Bargamon

Audi does really well in the Euro market. Avants outsell Sedans in most of them.

They have different engines there also.

Here Audi is considered a pretender than a leader by the masses. BMW and Mercedes have the cache value and many buy them for snob appeal purpose.

Audi wants to be the world wide leader and it may do so but has a long way to go in this market.

In this market an Audi represents a different image that is far from mainstream.

BMW is a victim of its own success as "3 series are everywhere" which makes it hard to make a statement.

Its obvious that the AllRoad is not designed for the north american market. If it were it would be introduced here and it never would have left.

Don't forget that "ALLROAD" implies NOT off road!

I remember seeing the first Allroad and thinking it was a bit overkill. 3 years later I had one.

For me I was shopping and they were having a hard time selling a manual allroad in north carolina and got it for the price of an A6. And trust me they had no Manual A6's to sell me or deal on. It would be a factory order.

At that time it represented an upgrade of two tone leather, adujustable suspension and a unique factor "FOR THE MONEY". I doubt I would have paid a premium then.

But I would now.

der Scherzkeks

Does "no one" want a Mercedes-Benz or a BMW anymore? Are their cars bland and boring, with sales dwindling? Following your logic above, the answer to both questions would be yes.

Is manual transmission availability in a wagon (in the US, no less) what brings people in the door to buy an A5, an A4 sedan, or a Q5? Is the secret to making a car that "cool kids" want to add a manual transmission?

The allroad will breathe new life into the wagon body-style here in the States, regardless of its transmission. And someone has to be holding the #1 spot, and in my opinion that someone is Audi.

Bargamon

Last year when I was shopping a consideration was 328i Sport Wagon and they do come with Manual. Can't find one on the lot or used. Majority is x drive auto. Would have to order.

X drive on the BMW kind of ads weight and height to a 3 series. I ended up with a coupe the way I wanted it. Took a lot of work.

Most wagon buyers are not "sport" buyers so the MT does not really kill sales for them. This is not europe where petro prices are high. Still cheap. Top two cars sold in us are monster pickup trucks. Even 2010!

Btw, one an order a BMW sport wagon with the roof rails deleted and it looks great.

With 3 mt cars already in the driveway having an Avant with Tip is not a problem for us.

I agree that MT's should be more available but what I prefer does not jive with the masses. Maybe BMW gets it?

Sundowner

Does a GT version of a mustang sell more V6's? does a C63AMG sell more C classes? does an M3 sell more 3 series? These are special and unique variants offered to shore-up the performace cred of the model.

Look at a Chevy Avalanche. did you know you could get it with or without rubber side moldings? did you care? Remember the 1968 shelby GT500KR mustang? of course you do! sweet car, that happened to have a paint and stripe package. Remember the 1978 Mustang Cobra? of course you don't! It was thesame exact car as a regular mustang, just with a paint and stripe package.

An allroad that's just a "paint and stripe" package, will do nothing but cheapen the model and the brand. It's actually WORSE than doing nothing. I have no idea what it's suppsed to breathe life into except maybe the size of the dealer's back storage lot.

Bargamon

New Allroad has not upgrades to regular Avant?

the A6 had special tires, wheels, adjustable height suspension (it was a very cool thing!) two tone interior (unique at the time) and brushed aluminum trim. Had them door "Blades" in the Aluminum. They were a sought after "mod" by non A6 variants.

The wheel flairs and black in the last two years of existance could be ordered painted to match body.

This package made the car unique.

To my eye, A6 avants looked almost "weak" in comparison when in just stock form.

Depends on the perspective. I had an ALLroad and drink its kool aid.

der Scherzkeks

The basis of our debate originally centered around manual transmissions. The C63 doesn't offer a manual transmission, yet you offer it up as an example of a good thing. While I agree with you, it also drives my point home further that a manual transmission does not separate cool cars from boring ones.

The allroad is not just a paint and stripe package. It is has no less differentiation than that of a Legacy vs an Outback. The Outback of course was one of Subaru's biggest hits off the rally circuit, and most definitely elevated awareness of the Subaru brand to where it is today. Which, in turn, breathed new life into a dying body-style.

PS - did you know that the Avalanche was available as both a 1/2 ton and 3/4 ton? I am too young to remember the other cars you mentioned... (humor)