mart242

This A4 is my first car with such feature.. previously I had a base subaru impreza which didn't have any of those electronic gizmos beside the more or less annoying ABS.

We got some snow yesterday and on the way to work this morning I tried to have a bit of fun on the road.. a little sliding here and there but let's just say that my enjoyment was short lived because the stability control would kick in all the time before I could correct the slide myself.. fine I said, I'll turn it off.. I was then stuck with the big bright "fun mode" warning sign lit on the dashboard.. quite annoying

I completely understand the use of stability control on the highway but man is it ever a mood killer on near empty roads. Got in a nice turn, gave it some gas to slide the rear end and bam, it kicks in. Left a parking lot a bit fast, wanted to do a quick 90 - 180 turn so gave some gas. Nothing. argh.

I'm scared of thinking how drivers will be in a few years, they'll have no clue of what to do if their car slides and their stability control system doesn't work...

mgm

I don't have a problem with it unless you can't turn turn it off completely. In the Audi you can, in fact you can turn off the traction control only with one quick press and stability control with a long press. In many other cars you can't disable it.

mart242

Yeah, what's up with this. Simply liability reasons? Hopefully the good cars will always offer the option to disable it.

matthewsjl

Putting it really simply: ESP is better than any driver can ever be just because of the individual wheel braking control. An individual can't be trained to operate the braking system in the same way that ESP behaves. Why not just build it in now the technology has become cheap? I believe that stability systems are on the list of items mandated (or soon to be) because they save lives.

Onto the broader point, there are a proportion of drivers out there who will never be able to catch a slide in a car without gizmos. That's why it needs to be standard fit. Personally, my wife fits this category - which is why a few years ago, I vowed to never buy another car without ESP.

That 'fun mode' is fun until you get something that you can't control. In the UK, as an example, it could be a tight turn with a diesel spill... without ESP, virtualy no chance - with ESP you have a better chance. It might not happen to you - but it has happened to a friend of mine. He turned the electronics off and got caught out. Wrote off the car.

I was recently at an Audi driving event and got some time on a skidpan. I had a boat load od fun in a BMW 325 with r-comps. The Audi A4 didn't want to break loose and the instructor had to use the e-brake to get it to rotate. ESP really works.

Cheers,

John.

Kris Hansen

Flip side: People put WAY too much faith in those "safety" systems, and drive way too fast for conditions, and then are alarmed when their car is unable to overcome the laws of physics and all season tires.

It's a known fact that ABS will INCREASE stopping distances on ice/snow/gravel. ESP is great, but personally I'd rather have a little slip and slide than have the car react and possibly upset it's balance. But that's just me.

matthewsjl

People will always drive too fast for the conditions - no matter what safety systems are fitted. ESP gives them a better chance than they otherwise have. As we know, it still can't defy the laws of physics.

ESP systems have got better over the years. Bosch keeps refining the algorithm (or so it seems). I think they can also tailor the algorithm for an agressive catch vs allowing a little slide here and there. Unfortunately, this is where most consumer vehicles will apply the lowest common denomiator - conservative catch mode. I'd prefer a little allowance on the slide too - but for the masses, it's better to be conservative.

John.

Kris Hansen

I agree of course, but I'd rather rely on good tires and skill than whether the car can or can't correct a situation.. =) As with ABS, if you attempt to modulate the brakes, it confuses the ABS. Does correcting a skid confuse ESP? I've never tried.

matthewsjl

Yes, it gets a little confused. Basically, if you 'catch' the slide... the steering angle sensor is now telling the ESP controller that you actually want to be going in the direction of the slide. It's still going to straighten you out, but it's making an incorrect assumption about the direction you want to end up going in.

Having said, the above, you can use it to your advantage to be quick. If you're understeering into a corner (basically going too quick), ESP will (within reason) drag the front end around by using ESP braking to bring the nose in (the ESP causes rotation around the rear wheels).

I trust ESP. I trust it for the situations where I'm on the way home from work, tired etc. etc. I trust it for my wife. It is very useful for the unexpected slide or the idiot that pulls out in front of you and causes you to swerve at the last minute.

If I'm actually trying to push the car, it can be intrusive - and I understand your point.

John.

Kris Hansen

Interesting. It sounds like I'll have to get my hands on a car with ESP and see how it works before I cast final judgment.

markcincinnati

ESP should be mandatory for all cars built for use on the planet's highways and roads.

ESP (which includes ABS and ABS+Brake Assist) is one of THE most important technologies to be put in cars in decades!

Yes the "fun factor" is diminished -- but it can be almost turned completely off, if you want to spin donuts on a freshly covered parking lot, etc.

Add torque vectoring to ESP and quattro and the car is so much more capable than anything any of us are even capable of doing.

I wouldn't have a car without these systems considering that the highways and roads actually do have other people who want to use them.