smooth_oparider

Hi All,

Just wanted to share this with the Audi community as a precautionary tale about APR and request for some advice from the experts (you guys). I have a 2010 A4 (B8) with APR stage I. I've had the mod for the last 3.5 years with no issues. I don't drive it particularly hard but at times it is fun to push it a bit. Anyway. About a month ago I got a check engine light and since I was due for 65,000 mile service I figured I'd roll it all into one appointment. I don't usually go to the dealer for this kind of stuff but they quoted me a good price so I took it in. Turned out it was the PCV valve that had failed. They replaced the valve and I was on my way. One day later the car started to lose power on the freeway. When I got off the freeway the RPM gauge dropped to 0 (shut off). I restarted the car and drove home. Next day (two days after service) the car wouldn't start and my engine fan was going nuts. My HUD also showed every possible error like "tire pressure monitor failure", "parking system failure" etc. so I suspected the ECM right off the bat. I had the car towed to the dealership. In their possession it would turn on at times but not consistently. They diagnosed it as a HPFP (high pressure fuel pump) failure. I asked them to verify the ECM and they said they have no way to do it. Next day they also told me that the fan relay was bad and that is why it was turning on and running for extended periods of time. This made me even more suspicious but I figured they were the experts. Today is Friday and my car has been at the dealership since last Sunday evening. Finally they sent me an email saying it is the ECM (shocker!!!) and that the repairs would run $2300!!! I just wanted to get some of your opinions here on the following items:

a) Should I be suspicious that all of this happened literally the day after I picked up the car from service?

b) Can APR cause ECM failures? I don't know if I can go back to regular power / feel so I am considering alternatives. Is STaSiS considered any better / safer?

c) Does $2300 sound like a reasonable price or too expensive? Can the ECM be feasibly be installed by someone with a solid electronics background (myself), w/o the need for paying the dealership for this?

d) I am planning to ask them to give me a full breakdown of parts and labor so I can gauge how fair the price is. Is there anything else that I should ask?

-Konstantin

smooth_oparider

Update: I just spoke with the shop that performed the initial APR tune on my vehicle. They said that ECM failures are possible with ECM mod that are older than a couple of years because the ECM board had to be physically removed. Because it was bonded to a metal heat-sink, separating it stressed the ECM PCB and they have had some failures because of that.

ayap

I've always been scared about the old ways of doing Stage 1 - and that is "Physically Removing the Chip from the Car's computer, mailing the Chip to APR, then they reprogram it, they mail it back to you, and then you reinstall it in your car". The risks of damaging the physical Chip was not something I would risk - who knows if by holding the chip in your hands or the mail man mishandling it caused its life to be shorter.
I just had my ECU flashed by Revo software without removing the chip - they just connect their device directly to the car's computer port, so there's no physical removal of the chip - no tampering there at all. I'm happy about this new method.

Do you change oil every 5,000 miles? If you got this second hand, did you know how it was maintained?

Base on the Revo notes, A4 before 2011 had weaker cams and were prone to failure.

It's also possible that at 65,000 miles, there's bound to be some failure. Car manufacturers take into consideration that after 50,000 miles, any parts could fail for any reason.

smooth_oparider

I got the car with 20k miles so it was almost brand new and already chipped. I knew it was APR but did not know the method which the previous owner used nor how well he / she maintained it. My best guess is that he would have had to remove the ECM. I change the oil about every 7k miles. I'm not convinced that 5k is necessary, even with the ECU mod. I think all shops now use the direct plug-in method rather than ECU removal. I talked to the APR dealer and he mentioned that this is what their shop does as well, no more removals. Do you have additional info on 5k oil changes and why that would be beneficial over let's say 7k?

ayap

My Revo installer very clearly told me never to exceed 5,000 miles for oil change interval, or I will have exactly the same problem your just described. I would blow up my engine or turbo.
So, 5,000 miles interval is pretty safe.
It's a preventive measure to make your engine last, since these are turbo engines not naturally aspirated engines. I've always been bias towards naturally aspirated engines for durability.
I've never been comfortable about the longevity of turbo based engines.
Plus they recommend an oil additive (BG MOA) every oil change, for even added protection. But all my cars have always had oil change at around 5,000 mile intervals.

I'm going to do preventive maintenance to avoid something like that happening.
Even my Audi technician recommends 5,000 mile oil change even though the manual suggest every 10,000 miles for synthetic.

You can watch how BG MOA can prevent wear and tear on high stressed engines here - you decide:

roger_1

Google Chipwerke and Racechip. Lots of possible feedback, with a greatly reduced risk of voiding the Audi warranty. I have no affiliation.

Liborio_1985

Damn another burn ECU due to APR flashing.. now I'm 50/50 on flashing mines! smooth_oparider - GL with your B8

ayap

Don't let it scare you.
If you scared, you won't be able to do any modifications, thinking it will damage the car in 1,000,000 ways.
Have a you seen that movie - a Million Ways to Die. Your car has a million ways to die too.
And that's the end - just settle for stock.

Westija

Ayap, I cannot see the correlation between oil change intervals and fan relay failures. Help me understand it, pls.

ayap

You probably did not read the discussion well. There are 2 separate discussions in this threat.
One discussion was the ECU failure, which the OP thought caused the fan failure and other things. The ECU controls different parts of the car. His ECU could have been fried due to many things. I discussed the old ECU installation method during chipping - which I did not like because the ECU had to be removed and reinstalled. That could have affected the life of his ECU. Read that discussion I posted.

The other separate discussion is how you maintain your tuned engine or chipped ECU (which is not damaged yet) and is a preventive maintenance discussion, entirely separate from the ECU and fan failure discussion, and more focused on how to maintain the engine cylinders from misfiring. To maintain a tuned or chipped car, one school of thought is to change your oil more frequently. You are confusing the 2 separate discussions. His ECU is already fried, which means - nothing could be done but to change it. He has to replace it - get it? Has nothing to do with oil change. Preventive maintenance is when all things are working well (meaning your ECU is still great), and you want to prevent bad things from happening in the future - that's where the oil interval discussion comes in. If your engine is working fine with frequent oil change, the rest of your system has less chances of breaking down. So, once he replaces his ECU, he still needs to maintain his car well if he wants to chip/tune it again - that's what I was getting at.