av_audi

Background: Consumer Reports tested the 2009 2.0T and essentially rated the handling as nearly extraordinary. Their accident avoidance maneuver max speed was exceptionally high. Then they recently tested the 2011 model with the new 8-speed. They reported handling as being still very good, but not quite as good as with the 2009 model, and their listed accident avoidance max speed is now noticeably lower (still very good though). Both cars were quattros.

On paper, the only difference between P+ & P are slightly wider tires: P245/45R17 versus P225/50R17. I am pretty sure they both had P6s. Can the slight increase in width make such a big differences? Braking performance is also down. Again, is it due the the slightly wider tires? Perhaps the tires were not both P6s? Perhaps different tire pressures were used?

I find it unlikely, but have there been any suspension or brake tweaks between 2009 and 2011? Or are there such differences between P & P+.

Perhaps CR just goofed up? Or perhaps environmental conditions played a role?

gunsmoker

CR doesn't look like a serious car testing outfit that matches road conditions, temperature, tire pressure, drivers, etc. I'm not even sure if they do the tests themselves or just gather info from the net. They can't be possibly testing all cars every year.

av_audi

I used to think that way too. But not anymore. I now consider them as one of the most reliable sources for car test results. They have their own track. They have drivers that are good enough that they can drift on curves at high speeds while talking into a camera (I think some of their short videos are available to non-subscribers). They are far less likely than other magazines to have any agendas.

The nearly extra inch of width could make a difference. After all, the A4 Quattro is a pretty heavy car at 3,700+ lbs. Maybe the P6 compound has changed a little over the years. Tire manufacturers do that, as hinted to by tirerack.com articles. There could also be batch to batch variability with tires.

I was mostly curious about whether someone knew of any unadvertised changes from 2000 to 2011, or between P+ & P.

Barrels41

That is an interesting question. I do not know. But I drove a 2009 A4 3.2 loaner several times and it was allot more solid than the A4 P 2.0.

I also tested an A4 2.0 P vs A 3.2 with sport package which convinced me to a lease a 2.0 P+ with sports package.

I would like some feedback on a Prestige standard suspension with 18" wheels. Or any A4 retrofit with 18" wheels & tires. I have to think with wider 17" tires on the P+ have more lateral grip than the P.

P6 is not the only A4 OEM tire.

CR rated the Infiniti M35X the best car made. It was well made but horrible to drive. Wandering and trammeling. A huge gas hog too which was a problem mid 2008.

I still respect CR for good intentions. I like to read the negative comments on auto blogs after rejecting the crank and mean minded postings. They can help you avoid a huge mistake.

Sundowner

My father in law has a 2010 P, pretty much no options except bluetooth, heated seats, iPod interface, and a stick. I have a 2011 P+ with the Ti package, also with a stick. The tires on his car are more economy biased and probably have a low rolling resistance and tread wear based design to get the EPA numbers up. It sticks nicely but no where near what the tires on my car are capable of. I honestly think those tires would stick to the wall.

QUA77R0

Consumer Reports is more likely to approach the process of testing scientifically than the automotive magazines.

P245/45R17 versus P225/50R17.... most likely both are NOT Pirelli P6's. And as has been pointed out, 20mm is not insignificant. We don't know whether or not they are all-season or not... Tires can make a HUGE difference! What about the wheels? Are they the same width? What about offset? A wider track will improve grip all else remaining the same...

And what about gearing? Were they in Auto/Sport? Manual? When I have run these emergency lane change exercises with the Audi Club, what gear you are in is key too.


Also, it is important to remember that these models were not tested back to back. Over the course of a year or more, many things can change. Driver reaction time/consistency....

av_audi

True, but CR lists the tire model for the tested car, and I am reasonably sure it was P6s for both cars.

I just did a quick search for other reviews and came across a Car & Driver shootout that gives it extremely high marks. Since you also mention it to be a gas hog, perhaps you are referring to the MX56, not the MX37?

av_audi

You make many good points. I would assume they do this particular test in normal driving mode. They actually make a bunch of track data available, but it is at some extra cost. Wheels and such are probably whatever came standard with the car.

You just reminded us how important tire choice is. The more I think about it, the more it seems like this car _deserves_ to have a sport suspension with summer tires. The sport pack for 2012 will apparently come all seasons instead of the current summers.

a4-bob

+1 If I ran Audi the sport suspension would be standard w/ all season tires yet I'd still offer a lower (drop == H&R OE springs) and sportier suspension package with better performance tires. BMW seems to offer their lineup more like this and they get massive praise for their superior handling. funny how tires and suspension affect those sort of things...

BMoreB8

I realize it isn't precisely apples to apples, and actually goes against the prevailing tenor and consensus of the thread, but I test drove an A5 P+ 2.0T (it was either an '09 or '10) and found the car kind of dead feeling. Now granted I drove it immediately after driving a Subaru WRX, which is just about as lively as you can get for the money, but I felt it was like a supermodel: looked great, but no personality. I ended up several months later with an A4 P and it seems more spirited, with more personality and better road feel, but no less stable. Obviously this is far from objective, but I felt less confident driving the A5 fast and wasn't really comfortable pushing the A5; I absolutely flogged the WRX and A4 when I test drove them. I do agree, though, that all things being relatively equal, tires are a huge part of the equation.