Troubleshooting MMI 3G

Reply Subscribe

Thread Tools

Search this Thread

11-28-2023, 12:30 AM

sm87

AudiWorld Junior Member

Thread Starter

Join Date: Jan 2014

Posts: 33

Likes: 1

Received 2 Likes on 2 Posts

Troubleshooting MMI 3G

Could use some advice on troubleshooting a non-working MMI in a 2010 A4 2.0 M/T, Premium Plus trim with GPS navigation.
Main symptoms are the screen is off, won't turn on, the controls near the shifter don't light up, all MMI features are absent from the instrument cluster (media/voice command/etc).
- Fuses all look fine, swapped them around to confirm and nothing changed.
- CD drive makes noise when eject is pressed. Press top right + bottom left buttons around the selector wheel (supposed to be MMI reset) results in a slight click/pop through the speakers, seems like it's turning on/off.
- Reverse proximity sensors are still beeping as before - and it's using the sound system speakers if I'm not mistaken.
- I using a fiber optic bypass loop in place of the module in the left (driver) side of the trunk, didn't seem to do anything. I'm a little skeptical if optical connectors were adequate, can't think of a way to verify it.

Scanned the car with OBD11, the three MMI-related modules (19 CAN Gateway, 56 Radio, 5F Multimedia) all seem to be alive and not reporting any trouble codes:

Quote:

---------------------------------------------------------------
01 Engine

System description: 2.0l R4/4V TF
Software number: 8K2907115AL
Software version: 0001
Hardware number: 8K2907115D
Hardware version: H16
ODX name: EV_ECM20TFS0118K2907115AL
ODX version: 001001
Long coding: 0104010A180F0160

Trouble codes:
No trouble codes found

---------------------------------------------------------------
03 Brakes

System description: ESP8 quattro
Software number: 8K0907379CA
Software version: 0030
Hardware number: 8K0907379CA
Hardware version: H04
Serial number: --------------
Long coding: 070D18

Trouble codes:
02214 - Tire pressure warning
static
Priority: 4
Frequency counter: 254
Driving cycle: 73
Mileage: 258168 km
Date: 2023-03-24 18:53:47

---------------------------------------------------------------
05 Keyless System

System description: BCM2 1.1
Software number: 8K0907064DG
Software version: 0327
Hardware number: 8K0907064DG
Hardware version: H02
Long coding: 0B0100

Subsystems:
System description: FBSAUDIB8 IDG
Software number: 8K0959754B
Software version: 0083
Hardware version: H71
Serial number: 0815000086179012

System description: J764 ELV MLB
Software number: 8K0905852D
Software version: 0042
Hardware version: H37
Serial number: 0210000022621008

Trouble codes:
No trouble codes found

---------------------------------------------------------------
08 Air Conditioning

System description: KLIMA 3 ZONEN
Software number: 8T1820043AQ
Software version: 0171
Hardware number: 8T1820043AQ
Hardware version: H08
Serial number: 01050320100199
Long coding: 64102000

Trouble codes:
No trouble codes found

---------------------------------------------------------------
09 Central Electrics

System description: BCM1 1.0
Software number: 8K0907063P
Software version: 0380
Hardware number: 8K0907063P
Hardware version: H25
Serial number: 00000000484498
Long coding: 26001091063CAF010000080300003D0D0F1C12080201016100 0000

Subsystems:
System description: WWS 110310
Software number: 8K1955119A
Software version: 0070
Hardware version: H06
Serial number: SWF10030116559
Long coding: 00FD11

System description: RLS
Software number: 8K0955559
Software version: 0003
Hardware version: H04
Serial number: 10814390
Long coding: 025028

System description: E1 - LDS
Software number: 8K0941531AL
Software version: 0090
Hardware version: H08
Serial number: 00000000002702101001

System description: HOMELINK
Software number: 8K0907410C
Software version: 0010
Hardware version: H01

Trouble codes:
No trouble codes found

---------------------------------------------------------------
10 Parking Assistance

System description: PARKHILFE 4K
Software number: 8K0919475Q
Software version: 0070
Hardware number: 8K0919475
Hardware version: H06
Serial number: 51241006901228
Long coding: 200003

Trouble codes:
No trouble codes found

---------------------------------------------------------------
15 Airbag

System description: AirbagVW-AU10
Software number: 8K0959655K
Software version: 0610
Hardware number: 8K0959655K
Hardware version: H41
Serial number: 003GLD0D2APH
ODX name: EV_AirbaECUVWAUDI010
ODX version: 003010
Long coding: 303837354230303030304A55304C384B3053

Subsystems:
System description: BF-Gewichtss.
Software number: 8K0959339B
Software version: 0030
Hardware version: H01
Serial number: 5810000R10000067SM

Trouble codes:
No trouble codes found

---------------------------------------------------------------
16 Steering Column

System description: Lenks.Modul
Software number: 8K0953568F
Software version: 0014
Hardware number: 8K0953568F
Hardware version: H16
Serial number: 90304JCA000C9
Long coding: 000016

Subsystems:
System description: E221 - MFL
Software version: 0010
Hardware version: H02

Trouble codes:
No trouble codes found

---------------------------------------------------------------
17 Dashboard

System description: KOMBIINSTR.
Software number: 8K0920980M
Software version: 0255
Hardware number: 8K0920980M
Hardware version: H20
Serial number: CIX16N43A
Long coding: 8B1509000300D705020000

Trouble codes:
No trouble codes found

---------------------------------------------------------------
19 Gateway

System description: GW-BEM 4CAN-M
Software number: 8T0907468AD
Software version: 0116
Hardware number: 8T0907468K
Hardware version: H09
Serial number: 5500E102270160
Long coding: 00C303

Subsystems:
System description: J367-BDM
Software number: 8K0915181E
Software version: 0170
Hardware version: H07
Serial number: 1000D1A4050310

Trouble codes:
03041 - Energy management active
Intermittent
Priority: 7
Frequency counter: 22
Driving cycle: 87
Mileage: 262589 km
Date: 2023-07-16 07:22:00

---------------------------------------------------------------
42 Driver Door

System description: TSG FA
Software number: 8K0959793H
Software version: 0306
Hardware number: 8K0959793D
Hardware version: H11
Serial number: 0000010141867
Long coding: 011C03204000410001

Trouble codes:
No trouble codes found

---------------------------------------------------------------
46 Comfort System

System description: BCM2 1.1
Software number: 8K0907064DG
Software version: 0327
Hardware number: 8K0907064DG
Hardware version: H02
Serial number: 0127996844
Long coding: 0106063A007A444400B0013200000000

Subsystems:
System description: GTO BF
Software number: 8K0959719
Software version: 0050
Hardware version: H06
Serial number: 00000000000000233108

System description: LIN BACKUP HO
Software number: 1K0951605C
Software version: 1501
Hardware version: H05

System description: J245 PS037
Software number: 8K0959591A
Software version: 0041
Hardware version: H06

Trouble codes:
No trouble codes found

---------------------------------------------------------------
52 Passenger Door

System description: TSG BF
Software number: 8K0959792H
Software version: 0306
Hardware number: 8K0959792D
Hardware version: H11
Serial number: 0000010235836
Long coding: 011C03204000410001

Trouble codes:
No trouble codes found

---------------------------------------------------------------
53 Parking Brake

System description: EPB Audi B8
Software number: 8K0907801H
Software version: 0100
Hardware number: 8K0907801H
Hardware version: H09
Serial number: 00000000583647

Trouble codes:
No trouble codes found

---------------------------------------------------------------
55 Headlight Regulation

System description: Dynamische LWR H01
Software number: 8K5907357
Software version: 0010
Coding: 0000004

Trouble codes:
No trouble codes found

---------------------------------------------------------------
56 Radio

System description: Radio U SIRIU
Software number: 4F0035082A
Software version: 0021
Hardware number: 4F0035082
Hardware version: H45
Serial number: 335CY0A7558271
Long coding: 020000020100000001

Trouble codes:
No trouble codes found

---------------------------------------------------------------
5F Multimedia

System description: H-BN-NA
Software number: 8T1035664B
Software version: 0042
Hardware number: 8T1035664B
Hardware version: H47
Serial number: 490CV0A7553154
Long coding: 010200000006A1EF01000B0E000000030000

Trouble codes:
No trouble codes found

---------------------------------------------------------------
62 Rear Left Door

System description: TSG HL
Software number: 8K0959795C
Software version: 0306
Hardware number: 8K0959795C
Hardware version: H10
Serial number: 0000103090638
Long coding: 010C03204000210001

Trouble codes:
No trouble codes found

---------------------------------------------------------------
6C Rear View Camera

System description: J772__Rearview
Software number: 8T0907441C
Software version: 0040
Hardware number: 4L0907441B
Serial number: 525PA8-J029249
Coding: 1000006

Trouble codes:
02203 - Audio-/video input 1 Open circuit
Intermittent
Priority: 4
Frequency counter: 102
Driving cycle: 111
Mileage: 253948 km
Date: 2023-01-05 16:48:17
02203 - Audio-/video input 1 Implausible signal
Intermittent
Priority: 3
Frequency counter: 1
Driving cycle: 98
Mileage: 264397 km
Date: 2023-09-16 13:07:40

---------------------------------------------------------------
72 Rear Right Door

System description: TSG HR
Software number: 8K0959795C
Software version: 0306
Hardware number: 8K0959795C
Hardware version: H10
Serial number: 0000103089990
Long coding: 010C03204000210001

Trouble codes:
No trouble codes found

The rear view camera started being flakey - not turning on when put in reverse - a few months before the MMI went dead. Currently the camera module is detecting when the reverse gear is engaged/off (on live data screen).

Also found an old scan in my email from 3 years ago when the MMI was fine, there were three subsystems showing for that module which are gone now:

Quote:

---------------------------------------------------------------
5F Information Control Unit 1

System description: H-BN-NA
Software number: 8T1035664B
Software version: 0042
Hardware number: 8T1035664B
Hardware version: H47
Serial number: 490CV0A7553154
Long coding: 010200000006A1EF01000B0E000000030000

Subsystems:
System description: NAR 2009/2010
Software number: 8R0060884F
Software version: 5304

System description: DU7 High
Software number: 4F0919604
Software version: 0306
Hardware version: H43
Serial number: 9356CQ0A1213962

System description: E0380 Bedient
Software number: 8T0919609F
Software version: 0100
Hardware version: H08
Serial number: 00000000486241

System description: CD-Database
Software number: 8R0906961A
Software version: 1293

Trouble codes:
No trouble codes found

Reply Like

11-28-2023, 05:59 AM

drgertol

AudiWorld Member

Join Date: Aug 2011

Location: NW OH

Posts: 494

Likes: 28

Received 84 Likes on 78 Posts

@sm87 -- Pro tip: bracket your OBDeleven log text in a CODE block to preserve white spacing/indents in the text.

Looks like NAR MMI3G High with the original production software and nav database released in 2009 from your older scan log. It is odd/strange to me that the control panel -E380- responds to the three-button restart but is not reported in the diagnostic scan. Also that the nav & Gracenote databases are not reported. That suggests to me that the J794 main unit is not starting fully -- the main unit powers both the display & control panel. BTW, the module in the rear is the Radio (Address 56 in your scan).

I think if I were in this position, I would start by swapping the main unit with a spare and rescanning; the salvage market for old MMI3G main units is decent in the US so they can be found for fair prices -- for example: https://www.ebay.com/itm/386220714094 or https://www.ebay.com/itm/375085024214

You might also look for a male MOST bypass loop to isolate the main unit from the optical loop. If it's working properly, it will still start. Note also that a failed HDD will not generally cause the main unit to stop working, since the base operating system & MMI software is all stored in flash memory. --g

Last edited by drgertol; 11-28-2023 at 06:07 AM.

Reply Like

11-28-2023, 08:52 AM

sm87

AudiWorld Junior Member

Thread Starter

Join Date: Jan 2014

Posts: 33

Likes: 1

Received 2 Likes on 2 Posts

Quote:

Originally Posted by drgertol

@sm87 -- Pro tip: bracket your OBDeleven log text in a CODE block to preserve white spacing/indents in the text.

Will do, I can't seem to edit the old post probably because new account.

Quote:

Originally Posted by drgertol

Looks like NAR MMI3G High with the original production software and nav database released in 2009 from your older scan log. It is odd/strange to me that the control panel -E380- responds to the three-button restart but is not reported in the diagnostic scan. Also that the nav & Gracenote databases are not reported. That suggests to me that the J794 main unit is not starting fully -- the main unit powers both the display & control panel. BTW, the module in the rear is the Radio (Address 56 in your scan).

I think if I were in this position, I would start by swapping the main unit with a spare and rescanning; the salvage market for old MMI3G main units is decent in the US so they can be found for fair prices -- for example: https://www.ebay.com/itm/386220714094 or https://www.ebay.com/itm/375085024214

You might also look for a male MOST bypass loop to isolate the main unit from the optical loop. If it's working properly, it will still start. Note also that a failed HDD will not generally cause the main unit to stop working, since the base operating system & MMI software is all stored in flash memory. --g

Thanks for the insights, I'll try looping out the main J794 unit next and check all those connections when I get my hands on the key/removal tool for it. If I do end up replacing the main unit will it show up on scans right away without getting component protection reprogrammed at the dealer?

From what I gather there aren't any aftermarket replacements for the main MMI 3G unit, the kits I managed to find are all basically an android tablet bolted onto the dash and spliced into the wiring harnesses but all the "car" functionality (settings, TPMS reset, etc) is still handled through the stock MMI system - so seems I'll need to get it sorted out either way.
Main headache for the moment is I have no way to reset TPMS w/o the MMI screen, clearing the brake module faults doesn't work it comes right back, it HAS to be possible via coding but seems no one bothered to figure out the details (why would you when it's so simple via MMI).

Reply Like

11-28-2023, 09:40 AM

SMac770

AudiWorld Super User

Join Date: Dec 2001

Location: Georgia

Posts: 9,856

Likes: 7

Received 2,052 Likes on 1,748 Posts

Component protection will just disable some manner of functionality, the unit will fundamentally be operational. Plus you'll have an actual DTC for component protection active.

There's no reason for any third-party to produce an aftermarket J794. The only such thing is the Alpine head unit, which Alpine doesn't sell in the NAR market. None of the Android stuff replaces the J794. They insert themselves between the J794 and the display.

The backup camera issue is not related to the MMI system, except at the point where the video cable from the backup camera connects to the J794. 02203 is the connection to the camera unit itself. 02283 would be the connection to the J794. If you look at the camera control module, you'll see there are two FAKRA connections, gray to the camera and green to the front end system (J794 in your case).

The park distance sensors are not related to any other system. They have their own buzzer speaker mounted on the right rear seat belt shoulder mount. If you had front and rear sensors, they can be visualized in the MMI system with the "OPS" system.

Reply Like

11-28-2023, 10:34 PM

sm87

AudiWorld Junior Member

Thread Starter

Join Date: Jan 2014

Posts: 33

Likes: 1

Received 2 Likes on 2 Posts

Quote:

Originally Posted by SMac770

Component protection will just disable some manner of functionality, the unit will fundamentally be operational. Plus you'll have an actual DTC for component protection active.

Good to know, haven't run run into component protection before.

Quote:

Originally Posted by SMac770

The park distance sensors are not related to any other system. They have their own buzzer speaker mounted on the right rear seat belt shoulder mount. If you had front and rear sensors, they can be visualized in the MMI system with the "OPS" system.

Makes sense for it to be an independent system. I assumed it was the same media speakers because of the stereo effect it does and how it fades out music on reverse gear.

Looking at parts and there are 4 variants of the main MMI unit:
8T1035664A - up to 10/2009
8T1035664B - from 11/2009
8T1035664C - from 11/2009
8T1035664D - to 10/2013
Seems like either of B, C or D should be OK as replacements?

Came across this thread, going to try poking through UART when I pull it out. I hadn't messed with firmware or upgrades at any point in the past so not too much hope of simply reflashing it.
https://www.audiworld.com/forums/q5-.../#post24675090

Reply Like

11-29-2023, 04:19 AM

SMac770

AudiWorld Super User

Join Date: Dec 2001

Location: Georgia

Posts: 9,856

Likes: 7

Received 2,052 Likes on 1,748 Posts

A was 1H MY10, B was 2H MY10, C was MY11, D was MY12. The revs were always updating to reflect the updated nav data factory load. I don't know if the units have any physical difference otherwise. MY11 added HD Radio, but that was likely only a change in the radio unit (change from 4F... to 4G... units). It would be curious if you could go with a B8.5 MMI 3G+ unit and pick up the integrated Bluetooth audio streaming support, if you're replacing the entire unit, if that's a function that would be interesting.

Reply Like

11-29-2023, 05:54 AM

drgertol

AudiWorld Member

Join Date: Aug 2011

Location: NW OH

Posts: 494

Likes: 28

Received 84 Likes on 78 Posts

@sm87 -- SMac is correct re the part number versions: inspection of the manufacturing labels on main units shows also that updated system software is installed on these at production. Later doesn't mean better here, since we can apply these software and nav database updates, as needed. I'd go with low cost to test, then update as necessary.

Re swapping with a later MMI3GP main unit (e.g., 8R1035746), while lots of these are around for fair prices, the MMI3GP control head is different & would likely need to be replaced, too. Back when we had 3G mobile data, MMI3G High to Plus conversions were a thing (so, it can be done). --g

Reply Like

Trending Topics

B9 Coupe and Cabrio Discontinued for 2025

24

1.5k
55 TFSI catless downpipe install.....

11

170
2018 Q5 OEM Amp location?

23

8.7k
A4 replacement here

7

241
One occurance of P050600 - idle air control system lower than expected

7

154

12-12-2023, 09:09 PM

sm87

AudiWorld Junior Member

Thread Starter

Join Date: Jan 2014

Posts: 33

Likes: 1

Received 2 Likes on 2 Posts

Update:
Just got another MMI unit off ebay (8T1035664C to be exact), popped it in, things came back to life immediately, component protection activated as predicted. Interestingly enough the reverse camera works too, I thought it went bad since it stopped working before the old MMI.
I heard the radio for a second or two the first time turning it on but now there's no sound (component protection I assume). I was able to verify sound is working by going into reverse-gear volume fade settings, while on the adjusting screen the radio plays as normal.
Navigation system seems to work, reports 6-8 satellites but map is not centering on my location but it does show the right direction where car is pointing, also guessing this is CP.
It did let me reset the TPMS warning (finally) and adjust the time - so looks like all the "boring" stuff isn't affected by component protection. Going to call a couple of shops tomorrow to see if they can reset it for me before going to the dealer.
Here's the scan with the new MMI module:

Code:

---------------------------------------------------------------
56 Radio

    System description: Radio U SIRIU
    Software number: 4F0035082A
    Software version: 0021
    Hardware number: 4F0035082
    Hardware version: H45
    Serial number: 335CY0A7558271
    Long coding: 020000020100000001

    Trouble codes:
        02984 - Connection between impedance converter 2 and window antenna Open circuit
            static
                Priority: 5
                Frequency counter: 21
                Driving cycle: 186
                Mileage: 233993 km
                Date: 2021-04-28 20:06:17
        00417 - Left front DSP mid-bass speaker Open circuit
            static
                Priority: 5
                Frequency counter: 1
                Driving cycle: 172
                Mileage: 233993 km
                Date: 2021-04-28 20:06:08
        00418 - Right front DSP mid-bass speaker Open circuit
            static
                Priority: 5
                Frequency counter: 20
                Driving cycle: 186
        02095 - Component protection active
            Intermittent
                Priority: 4
                Frequency counter: 1
                Driving cycle: 119


---------------------------------------------------------------
5F Multimedia

    System description: H-BN-NA
    Software number: 8T1035664C
    Software version: 0116
    Hardware number: 8T1035664B
    Hardware version: H51
    Serial number: 490CS0B7611164
    Long coding: 010200060005A1EF41000B0E000000030000

    Subsystems:
        System description: NAR 2011    
        Software number: 8R0060884AL
        Software version: 0506

        System description: DU7 High    
        Software number: 4F0919604  
        Software version: 0306
        Hardware version: H43
        Serial number: 9356CQ0A1213962    

        System description: E0380 Bedient
        Software number: 8T0919609F
        Software version: 0100
        Hardware version: H08
        Serial number: 00000000486241      

        System description: CD-Database  
        Software number: 8R0060961  
        Software version: 1886

    Trouble codes:
        03276 - Checking software version management
            static
                Priority: 6
                Frequency counter: 1
                Driving cycle: 79
                Mileage: 265334 km
                Date: 2023-12-12 20:53:10
        00658 - Operating unit No signal/communication
            Intermittent
                Priority: 5
                Frequency counter: 1
                Driving cycle: 119
        03157 - Function restriction due to communication interruption
            static
                Priority: 6
                Frequency counter: 1
                Driving cycle: 79
                Mileage: 265334 km
                Date: 2023-12-12 20:53:46
        02095 - Component protection active
            static
                Priority: 4
                Frequency counter: 1
                Driving cycle: 79
                Mileage: 265334 km
                Date: 2023-12-12 20:53:30
        02095 - Component protection active Implausible signal
            Intermittent
                Priority: 4
                Frequency counter: 1
                Driving cycle: 119
                Mileage: 265334 km
                Date: 2023-12-12 20:53:30


---------------------------------------------------------------
62 Rear Left Door

    System description: TSG HL
    Software number: 8K0959795C
    Software version: 0306
    Hardware number: 8K0959795C
    Hardware version: H10
    Serial number: 0000103090638
    Long coding: 010C03204000210001

    Trouble codes:
        No trouble codes found

---------------------------------------------------------------
6C Rear View Camera

    System description: J772__Rearview
    Software number: 8T0907441C
    Software version: 0040
    Hardware number: 4L0907441B
    Serial number: 525PA8-J029249
    Coding: 1000006

    Trouble codes:
        02203 - Audio-/video input 1 Open circuit
            Intermittent
                Priority: 4
                Frequency counter: 102
                Driving cycle: 111
                Mileage: 253948 km
                Date: 2023-01-05 16:48:17
        02203 - Audio-/video input 1 Implausible signal
            Intermittent
                Priority: 3
                Frequency counter: 1
                Driving cycle: 98
                Mileage: 264397 km
                Date: 2023-09-16 13:07:40

Couldn't make time to mess with the old MMI to try and reflash it or diagnose further via serial console, so nothing interesting to report there.

Reply Like

12-13-2023, 06:11 AM

drgertol

AudiWorld Member

Join Date: Aug 2011

Location: NW OH

Posts: 494

Likes: 28

Received 84 Likes on 78 Posts

@sm87 -- That's an encouraging result. Current software version for your main unit is HNav_US_K0133_3_D1; I have it here: https://www.vwvortex.com/threads/aud...tware.9471271/
Also, I have a more recent nav database here: https://www.vwvortex.com/threads/8r0...post-115272158
I helped a fellow in CA recently with some questions he had about his MMI3G High system -- he has access to the latest MMI3G nav database update (2021/2022), released in late 2020. Maybe he'll find time to make it available to the AW MMI3G community.
The DTCs in the RVC controller are likely due to previous video cable disconnects; based on the freeze frame dates, they can be cleared/erased. --g

Reply Like

12-15-2023, 08:22 AM

#10

sm87

AudiWorld Junior Member

Thread Starter

Join Date: Jan 2014

Posts: 33

Likes: 1

Received 2 Likes on 2 Posts

@drgertol Thanks for the links, got my hands on some (working) SD cards and installed the updates yesterday. All went smoothly but took quite some time, first one about an hour or and the nav data probably another 2 hours.
With the new software GPS now works fully for the first couple of minutes after starting the car and then only shows "Navigation data is blocked". Is it even possible for independent shops to (legally) reset component protection or an I wasting my time? I found some threads about a guy in Poland being able to do it remotely, wonder if it's a dealership tech running a side hustle, the two 'German car specialists' around here both said only Audi service department will be able to do that.

By the way with an SD card >32GB Windows only let you format it as exFAT (which MMI doesn't seem to like) instead of FAT32, workaround is to just create a 32GB partition (leaving the rest of the space unused) and format that as FAT32 for the update. In theory FAT32 should support larger volume sizes so this seems like a Windows-specific thing.

Reply Like

Reply Share

First
Prev
1 / 8
Next
Last