looking@audi

Toyota tops 2012 recall list for the 3rd time in 4 years.
http://www.nbcnews.com/business/toyo...ears-1B7877285



Japanese cars have a great reputation for reliability, but it looks like Toyota and Honda have had significant recent issues with recalls.

Jatmobil

I look at it this way:

If the world's most reliable car makers are openly recalling so many cars, what are the others hiding?

salvadorik

I look at recalls in a positive way. By recalling the vehicles a manufacturer openly acknowledges that there are some issues with the certain cars and they are willing to fix them. This is in contrast to other manufacturers that are aware of the problems but are not willing to recall the cars till the government puts a lot of pressure on them. The recent recalls by Toyota by no means make their cars less reliable. It just means that the company is willing to fix the issues. I give them thumbs up for that.

looking@audi

You guys are both missing the point. The NHTSA has been aggressively going after and fining Toyota and other companies to get them to acknowledge the safety issues are force the recalls. This is just one example below...


But not everyone is taking as positive a view. The NHTSA, in fact, issued its largest single fine ever against Toyota this past year, $17.35 million for delaying a recall of Lexus vehicles involving potential problems with unexpected acceleration. It was the fourth time Toyota had paid the maximum allowable penalty for illegally delaying recalls since 2010.

salvadorik

If you look at sales numbers, despite all the nightmare that Toyota experienced, they are significantly up. Dont quote me on that, but Toyota regaining #1 spot once again leaving behind GM. Still when people are looking for a car, Toyota is at the top of their list. I believe you wont refute these facts, now will you?

looking@audi

No doubt that Toyota sells a lot of cars and has a great reputation for reliability.

Reputations (both good and bad) can be hard to break.

And that was the point of my original post. The top selling brand with a great reputation for reliability tops the recall list for the 3rd time in 4 years.

Helmar

I've had 3 Lexus LS's (LS400, LS430, and my current LS600hL) and a BMW 3 series.

The 3 Lexus never required anything but routine maintenance (and a recall servicing or two).

The BMW was in the shop 4 times the first year due to issues.

Individual experiences mean little, but hopefully my new A6/7 in September will match my Lexus experience.

All of which begs the question: How does a manufacturer make a car more reliable? Design the individual components stronger or to higher tolerances? More stringent manufacturing processes? Better quality control? All of the above?

In other words, exactly what processes make an Audi much more reliable than a BMW (or, for that matter, a Yugo?)

HBH

DER KONIG PANZER

I had two Junkxus RX350 s one replaced by Lexus as it was so poorly built. The replacement was worse! Traded for a BMW X5 that has been rock solid. My 2012 Q5 was great, 17k miles. Time will tell on the 2013 A6 as I only have 33 miles on it. A few years back I purchased a Subaru Forester as a winter ride for my wife as her E350 was rear drive. The Subaru was junk! Cam shaft and lifters at 2300 miles, yes 2300 and brake issues too. Dumped it after the repair. Purchased her a Saab 93 awd and it has been great, 55k miles. I believe Toymotor and Junkxus have "media driven quality", like some of our politicians. If enough people tell you something is the best or great most will begin to believe it.

newmoon

I see reliability and recalls as completely separate quality issues.

To me, reliability is more about how long a car will continue to run until something breaks. Things like: will the transmission fail? Carbon buildup. High pressure fuel pump failure. A/C stops working. Power windows don't work.

Recalls are design issues that affect safety. Sure a good design will not have these issues, but sometimes they may only be discovered once the car is out there in the real world being driven by lots of people. Things like: the gas pedal may get caught under the floor mat, a fuel line was not tightened enough, may loosen over time and cause a fire.

Another quality issue is more to do with customer satisfaction in that they don't affect the function of the car. Things like: do the brakes and steering work smoothly? Creaks, rattles and wind noise.

There are probably many more aspects to "quality". Some things may even overlap and issues may fall under multiple categories. But I do think it's completely possible for Toyota to have a perceived or actual reputation for reliability, and at the same time have the most safety recalls.

The Toyota unintended acceleration debacle brought about a big attitude change in that company and I think it was a good thing for them and their customers. They now take care of all safety recalls right away without trying to cover things up because of the expense of a recall or possible damage to their reputation.

It has also made them focus even more on the other quality aspects like reliability and customer satisfaction. For example, I used to own a Lexus IS 250 which was affected by direct injection carbon buildup on the valves. They now have a customer service program where they will cover for 9 years/unlimited miles (standard powertrain warranty is 6yr/70k) the replacement with newly designed pistons and a top engine clean of the valves. I believe Audi also had this problem on the 3.2L normally aspirated, direct injection V6, but it seems that if you're out of warranty (only 4yr/50k), you'll be SOL.

Dramsey

A lot of Toyota's recalls were concerned with the entirely bogus "unintended acceleration" issue. The recall concerned floor mats that could allegedly become jammed on the gas pedal, which was the only explanation anyone was able to come up with to explain the reported incidents. No physical or electronic explanation was ever found (which makes sense when you consider that the real cause was goobers pressing the gas pedal to the floor).

You'd think Audi owners would be sympathetic to this. The original Audi case is the reason that all modern automatic transmission cars require you to press the brake pedal to shift out of park.