derekt75

I'm trying to decide between a Tesla Model S and an Audi S6. I posted on the teslamotorsclub site, and of course most people there think I should get the electric car. I figured it's only fair to post on the Audi fan site as well.

Pricing is similar (Model S Performance is $100k minus $7500 tax credit minus $2k/year energy savings). Performance is similar (0-60 in about 4 seconds, air suspension, low center of gravity).

The range of the electric car isn't really an issue for me. 300 miles will take me pretty much anywhere I want to go, and if I want to go farther I can use one of many charging stations on freeways or just take my wife's car.

The electric car has fewer parts that require mantenance and it would allow me to use the carpool lane in California. The single speed gearbox allows instant power when changing lanes, whereas the Audi S6 takes a significant fraction of a second to shift gears before the prodigious engine slams your chair back into you.
And with an electric car, I'd never need to worry that I was running late and running on empty; the car would have a full charge every morning.

On the flip side, Audi has all manner of bells and whistles such as adaptive cruise control, folding mirrors, lane departure warning and what not. Audi's reliability record might not be Lexus's, but a record at least exists. They've had years to tweak their interfaces based on what people like or didn't like.


What are your thoughts?

Oh, and unless you've driven the Model S Performance, please temper any performance rhetoric on the S6. Many of the people at TeslaMotorsClub keep on talking about how the performance of the Model S has to be so much better than the S6 even though they haven't driven one. I've driven both, and they're both incredible. Flooring it while making a right turn after stopping at a red light on either car is simply amazing.

GermanGarage

No way. Car will cost much more, has no dealer network, and you have to charge it. Yes, that's right, you have to plug it in.

Reliability? Come on.

I can say this as I helped pay for this company (as did all US tax payers.) Have to ask: will Tesla be around if Romney wins the election? These guys sold 1200 cars total.

My opinion, of course.

GermanGarage

Ok... they sold more than 1200 cars... but you get the point.

stoulana

Check latest sales report below:
http://www.freep.com/article/2012092...s-expectations

I would not spend this amount of money on Tesla, it looks great as far as reviews & performance but technology is unestablished, no wide deployment. With no wide deployment one can not tell what problems a car will have more important is dealer support.

Diogenes

The Tesla investment payoff should be measured by the technology they've developed. Sometimes it takes a while to get the hardware sorted out, but Tesla is moving in the right direction. I think they may have gone a bridge too far with the Model S and that it might not be ready for prime time. However, don't bet against the guy who got SpaceX off the ground, literally.

GermanGarage

Based on that article, maybe they haven't sold 1200 cars yet.... Bottom line: I wouldn't touch this company's products at this stage of the game

The Audi S6 is a refined super-car, with exceptional technology, amazing performance, a gas-powered engine (a plus), and ultra-reliability with tons of dealer-choice. Car and Driver called the S6 the "world's best sedan."

Are these tesla products really "competitive". The Tesla community seems to be filled with folks making a lot of political statements (anti-big-oil), not discussing the merits of the products.

derekt75

I live in Silicon Valley, so any repairs would be done close by. Fortunately, there's a lot less stuff to go wrong in an electric car. I would think most service stations could handle fixing tie rods, cabin air filters, and what not. If the battery has an issue, then I'd probably have to get Tesla to look at it, but as I said they're close by. Folks that have gotten the first couple hundred cars have found issues (not too surprising), but have generally been quite satisfied with Tesla's ability to get someone to go out and fix the problem.

The US government is looking for ways to reduce our oil expenditures. It does this through a bunch of methods. One of them is it provided a loan to Tesla. Tesla is repaying the loan ahead of schedule.
http://www.thedetroitbureau.com/2012...d-of-schedule/
Assuming the company fully repays the loan with interest, I'd say it's a stretch to say that you helped pay for the company.

They may have delivered fewer than 1000 cars, but they've gotten some 10000 people to put up a $5000 deposit for the right to buy a $50k to $100k car in 2013. That's over $50 billion in 2013 gross revenue for a company that got a $459 million loan from the US. I think they'll repay the loan. I don't think Romney/Obama will have a significant impact at this point. Well, if one of them gets the economy moving, it would raise gas prices which would help Tesla. If one of them destroys the economy, gas prices would fall, which would hurt Tesla.

Plugging in a car in my garage takes 5 to 10 seconds. Filling up a tank of gas takes 5-10 minutes, depending on if the service station is conveniently located and has no line.

I don't see how the Tesla costs "way more" than an S6. The yearly energy savings is well over $2000. The car doesn't require an oil change. There's no transmission fluid to flush.

I do agree that the Tesla forums are full of people that are simply anti-big-oil. When I posed the question on their fan site, many replied that buying a loud dirty CO2 emitter was backwards thinking.

I don't agree that a gasoline engine is a plus for me. Carpool lane, instant acceleration, a single speed gearbox, and charging at home rather than at a service station are all significant plusses for me.

Tesla's interior and their feature set is not competitive with Audi's (unless you really like a 17" touchscreen to control everything).
Its performance below 80mph is competitive with Audi's.

GermanGarage

Good for you. Couple comments:

1) As a US tax payer, we funneled billions to these electric car companies. Yes, I can absolutely say that these companies would not exist w/o our "loans". Yes, we (the US tax payer) funds this company. Yes, we paid for it. Yes, we funded it. No stretch there.

2) Where do you think your $7500 purchase subsidy comes from? The money tree? Tax payers pay this too. Yes, we supply demand funding/offsets. We fund this. (Yet to get a thank you note, btw.) No stretch here.

3) Electic cars less maintainenace than gas cars? Ok. ("If my Grandmother had wheels, she would be a wagon" - Scotty, Star Trek III) If you buy the marketing material Tesla lays out, you may believe this. Proof? Not yet...

4) If you want to go green above all else, and you want to support this emerging technology stack, go for it. It's your money... However, in my opinion, this is not a competitive car to the Audi S6. Not by a long shot.

5) Gas engines provide unlimited range -- electric cars do not. A Fisker gives you both for the same $$s. If I took a Tesla to visit my folks, the journey would take 3 days. My S6 will do it in 9 hours.

6) I seriously doubt Federal subsidies would continue under Romney -- my opinion, of course. Could be wrong (see George W Bush spending patterns), but our country is flat broke beyond any reason. Is a republican dedicated to pull back spending going to continue this funding of electric cars? Tesla has never made a dime... a long term problem for any business. Yes, private equity could make up the gap... sure. Musk is quite connected and has a successfull track record -- certainly wouldn't bet against him. However, would I bet a $100K on him?

dhodory

Though some of the political commentary has merit, I'll politely side-step it and say this: it depends upon what's important to you.

With the S6 you get:
1) best in class interior
2) refinement
3) performance
4) virtually unlimited range
5) time tested technology and support
6) Audi stands behind the car and likely won't be going any where soon

With the Model S you get:
1) very cool interior - not sure I'd say best in class
2) some rough edges - or at bare minimum, some things to "get used to"
3) performance
4) limited range - may not be a problem for you, depends on your personal 'use case'
5) new technology that is somewhat "TBD" in terms of reliability and support
7) Tesla is doing "all the right things" right now, but their existence and the viability of their business model is somewhat dependent upon the "mood" of elected officials and their attitude towards alternative fuels

I think both are great cars. The Tesla Model S is perhaps more interesting, but wouldn't look past the potential headaches of being on the cutting (bleeding?) edge. This is not a PC or phone that can be swapped out easily and relatively inexpensively if something goes wrong or is not to your liking. "Growing pains" with a Model S are likely, and that's OK as long as you go in knowing that and don't mind.

Question: are you typically an "early adopter" in other aspects of your life with technology? For example, did you buy one of the first iPhones? Did you buy Blu-ray when it was still struggling? If so, then you clearly have the "gotta' have it gene" and getting something early is important to you (no judgement here). If you're not an early adopter, being an early adopter with such a dramatic leap forward in automotive technology strikes me as a particularly poor way to dip your foot in the early adopter pool.

My two cents.

looking@audi

Yes, I would absolutely consider a Telsa S but only if I was much wealthier and it was my 3rd or 4th car (personal car - not total family cars).

Otherwise I would pass until the technology is more advanced, proven, and affordable.