"Auto, Motor und Sport".....RS6 performance somewhat dissapointing.....
08-15-2002, 11:21 AM
#13
Junior Member
Join Date: May 2002
Posts: 1,609
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
RS6 is supposed to be the king of the hill at least temporarily but according to those numbers, NOT
I have read several magazines and they all seems to concurred that after 80 mph M5 would pull strongly away from a RS6. This is dissapointing because the only advantage of the RS6 is at the start where traction would be at an advantage. However, during most aggressive driving mid range acceleration is what's important. Seem like most the time advantage for RS6 took place in the 0-30 only.
It is a bit dissapointing because the RS6 is supposed to be the king of the hill at least until the next generation E55 and V10 M5 debut. Not only is the advantage is not there, the value offered in the A6 lineup is not there, M5 is cheaper by a wide margin. Furthermore, rwd is more fun to drive that most owners of these super sedan usually can afford to own more than one cars. Come on who is going to take an RS6 in poor weather trips anyways.
The only advantage I can see is the rarity of RS6. only about 700 will be here and they will sure make us A6 owner jealous but will rarely be appreciated by others who knew little about Audi
It is a bit dissapointing because the RS6 is supposed to be the king of the hill at least until the next generation E55 and V10 M5 debut. Not only is the advantage is not there, the value offered in the A6 lineup is not there, M5 is cheaper by a wide margin. Furthermore, rwd is more fun to drive that most owners of these super sedan usually can afford to own more than one cars. Come on who is going to take an RS6 in poor weather trips anyways.
The only advantage I can see is the rarity of RS6. only about 700 will be here and they will sure make us A6 owner jealous but will rarely be appreciated by others who knew little about Audi
08-15-2002, 11:46 AM
#14
AudiWorld Super User
Join Date: Nov 2000
Posts: 12,697
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Well, the M5 is cheaper in theory at least...
Most M5s were sold at $10-20k above MSRP, although I know some got them at MSRP. Here in NorCal, I know of at least 2 that got sold at $49,999 above MSRP!!!
So, value-wise, they may be a wash...
As far as these numbers go, I see the "disappointment" in the mid-range numbers...but...
1. this is only one set of numbers
2. I find it funny that sometimes (such as the comparison of the 2.7T and the S6 or 4.2) it seems most people think the 0-60 time is most important...but now that the RS 6 is better 0-60, the suggestion is that the mid-range numbers are more important...
Overall, I think proponents on each side just like to use the numbers that favor their own side as most important...
I would take the RS 6 out in any weather...I'd probably take it to Tahoe to go skiing! Hell, it's only $20k more than the S6 Avant and that was a fun ski-mobile!
To each his own...if one is disappointed in the RS 6, then I suggest one is very difficult to satisfy...which is fine.
So, value-wise, they may be a wash...
As far as these numbers go, I see the "disappointment" in the mid-range numbers...but...
1. this is only one set of numbers
2. I find it funny that sometimes (such as the comparison of the 2.7T and the S6 or 4.2) it seems most people think the 0-60 time is most important...but now that the RS 6 is better 0-60, the suggestion is that the mid-range numbers are more important...
Overall, I think proponents on each side just like to use the numbers that favor their own side as most important...
I would take the RS 6 out in any weather...I'd probably take it to Tahoe to go skiing! Hell, it's only $20k more than the S6 Avant and that was a fun ski-mobile!
To each his own...if one is disappointed in the RS 6, then I suggest one is very difficult to satisfy...which is fine.
08-15-2002, 01:30 PM
#15
Junior Member
Join Date: May 2002
Posts: 1,609
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
In S. Cal, M5 were only sold over MSRP in the first 6 month
Now I can walk into any BMW dealerships here and order one for MSRP with some perks. And you know what??? people do pay the premium for a reason. If people are not paying premium to be the first to own a RS6 that said something about the car, especially when its so exclusively rare.
08-15-2002, 01:31 PM
#16
Junior Member
Join Date: May 2002
Posts: 1,609
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
There are good and bad for either awd or rwd
the handling with rwd is more lively and arguabably more fun than awd. awd would make great family cars and have all the advantage in traction and safety. but in ultimate fun driving they lack a bit in excitement
08-15-2002, 01:43 PM
#17
AudiWorld Super User
Join Date: Mar 2000
Posts: 2,310
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
basically a redux of what was already posted in response to this thread . . .
but what the heck. The RS6 numbers, just like the M5 performance numbers, will be critiqued over and over again. Some will focus on the weak spots, some will focus on the strengths. Each car has its performance envelope.
Similar to all of the other super sport/lux sedans, the RS6 is not just a speed/distance/time equation. Its a package of performance, sport, luxury, and utility. How well those are incorporated and perhaps married to the complete vehicle is what most owners will focus upon.
Of the 800 or so owners in N.A., my bet is that far more will be slopping through the slush than will be apexing at the track. Virtually a similar experience with the M5 owner demo. Here in the N.E. its common to see an M5 shod with winter shoes in January. The people want to drive the damn thing regardless because its a great car. I'm betting the RS6 will be no different and owners more inclinced to use it as it was intended.
All of this to say that between now and the first deliveries there will be a constant debate between supporters and detractor(s). The RS6, like all Audi cars, is built as a package of features. It is intended to do many things very well. I'm confident that it delivers in this regard.
Often we get caught up in the minutiae of the statistics. In real life, on the road, the differences are so ridiculously minute that it is unmeasurable. Primarily because very few drivers on the road constantly practice performance driving skills. I would buy the RS6 because I (1) like the A6 design, (2)like the performance the RS6 delivers, (3) prefer an awd platform because I would drive the car four seasons.
Its much like my S4 Avant. You can critique the numbers and point out the cons of the S4 and more specifically the S4 in Avant form. You can tell me that it does not perform as well as the E36/ E46 M3 in x,y,z category or in comparison to any hi-po sport lux car. It matters none to me, the owner. I bought the car with specific needs and wants in mind. Therefore, it easily satisfies my criteria. If it did not, then I would not have purchased it in the first place. The same can be said about the RS6 or any car. The car delivers all the performance I expect and more.
As soon as one model is surpassed, another will come along to surpass the surpassee. You see? :-) It's somewhat pointless because it is an open end argument. When comparing these statistics you quote its also important to footnote that 8 out of 10 drivers would not even be able to replicate them on the street. In some instances maybe 10 of 10.
It would be similar to comparing the salaries of 20 people who each make $100K a year. The person who makes $100,001 makes more money than the other 19 and is therefore statistically the wealthiest. Is he/she really more wealthy than the others by virtue of that one dollar? (especially if the statistically wealthiest does not know how to exploit the revenue- analagous to the driver/car in this example)
I find that the better the vehicle, the more critical people are of it. The RS6 will attract more and more of this type of critique.
I'll take the RS6 and worry about the various test spec's later.
Bri
Similar to all of the other super sport/lux sedans, the RS6 is not just a speed/distance/time equation. Its a package of performance, sport, luxury, and utility. How well those are incorporated and perhaps married to the complete vehicle is what most owners will focus upon.
Of the 800 or so owners in N.A., my bet is that far more will be slopping through the slush than will be apexing at the track. Virtually a similar experience with the M5 owner demo. Here in the N.E. its common to see an M5 shod with winter shoes in January. The people want to drive the damn thing regardless because its a great car. I'm betting the RS6 will be no different and owners more inclinced to use it as it was intended.
All of this to say that between now and the first deliveries there will be a constant debate between supporters and detractor(s). The RS6, like all Audi cars, is built as a package of features. It is intended to do many things very well. I'm confident that it delivers in this regard.
Often we get caught up in the minutiae of the statistics. In real life, on the road, the differences are so ridiculously minute that it is unmeasurable. Primarily because very few drivers on the road constantly practice performance driving skills. I would buy the RS6 because I (1) like the A6 design, (2)like the performance the RS6 delivers, (3) prefer an awd platform because I would drive the car four seasons.
Its much like my S4 Avant. You can critique the numbers and point out the cons of the S4 and more specifically the S4 in Avant form. You can tell me that it does not perform as well as the E36/ E46 M3 in x,y,z category or in comparison to any hi-po sport lux car. It matters none to me, the owner. I bought the car with specific needs and wants in mind. Therefore, it easily satisfies my criteria. If it did not, then I would not have purchased it in the first place. The same can be said about the RS6 or any car. The car delivers all the performance I expect and more.
As soon as one model is surpassed, another will come along to surpass the surpassee. You see? :-) It's somewhat pointless because it is an open end argument. When comparing these statistics you quote its also important to footnote that 8 out of 10 drivers would not even be able to replicate them on the street. In some instances maybe 10 of 10.
It would be similar to comparing the salaries of 20 people who each make $100K a year. The person who makes $100,001 makes more money than the other 19 and is therefore statistically the wealthiest. Is he/she really more wealthy than the others by virtue of that one dollar? (especially if the statistically wealthiest does not know how to exploit the revenue- analagous to the driver/car in this example)
I find that the better the vehicle, the more critical people are of it. The RS6 will attract more and more of this type of critique.
I'll take the RS6 and worry about the various test spec's later.
Bri
08-15-2002, 04:04 PM
#19
AudiWorld Super User
Join Date: Nov 2000
Posts: 12,697
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Here in NorCal...there are 8 people at one dealership who've already...
given $10k as a deposit...so yeah, they are paying premiums in some places...maybe SoCal is different.
I hope you are not seriously saying that this really means jack-sh*t about the car...implying that because someone is willing to pay more of a premium on an M5 that it is necessarily better than the RS 6 if people don't pay the premium...
It is very clear to me that people pay a premium for BMWs because, in many situations, they are merely buying status and yes, in the U.S., BMW provides a much higher status to its owners than Audi...no doubt. Fortunately, I, though vain, am not so vain as to allow others opinions of my "status in society" to cloud my judgement as to which vehicle is better and better for me. If I had the choice to do it again, 4.2 vs 540 and S6 vs 540 sportwagon, no doubt I'd take the 4.2 and S6...easy call.
Choice between RS 6 and M5? I don't know, I'd have to experience them both...but judging by what I do know about them now...easy, the RS 6 (for multitudes of reasons that I will not list now) although I would be very happy with an M5 also.
I hope you are not seriously saying that this really means jack-sh*t about the car...implying that because someone is willing to pay more of a premium on an M5 that it is necessarily better than the RS 6 if people don't pay the premium...
It is very clear to me that people pay a premium for BMWs because, in many situations, they are merely buying status and yes, in the U.S., BMW provides a much higher status to its owners than Audi...no doubt. Fortunately, I, though vain, am not so vain as to allow others opinions of my "status in society" to cloud my judgement as to which vehicle is better and better for me. If I had the choice to do it again, 4.2 vs 540 and S6 vs 540 sportwagon, no doubt I'd take the 4.2 and S6...easy call.
Choice between RS 6 and M5? I don't know, I'd have to experience them both...but judging by what I do know about them now...easy, the RS 6 (for multitudes of reasons that I will not list now) although I would be very happy with an M5 also.
08-15-2002, 04:17 PM
#20
AudiWorld Super User
Join Date: Sep 2001
Posts: 5,005
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Wait for the next (2007) RS6
The next RS6 will retain the hydraulic dynamic ride control system and receive a cornucopia of enhancements. Here is a short list (nine) of them:
1. Significantly improved servotronic (probably electrohydraulic) power rack and pinion steering system.
2. Adjustable electronic sport air suspension system.
3. Improved Brembo high performance braking system.
4. Numerous traction and braking aides (Quattro, ESP, brake assist, etc).
5. 500 fewer lbs due to more rigid and much tighter all aluminum construction.
6. 550 hp and 490-500 lbs/ft of torque.
7. Significantly improved tiptronic six speed automatic transmission.
8. Wider 19 inch wheels with wider, lower profile 19 inch summer or all season performance tires.
9a. Near 50/50 front/rear weight distribution despite Quattro.
9b. This will be achieved by mounting the "non transverse" engine (which is still in the front) further back than the current model.
If the next RS6 is this good, it sure as hell will be well worth the wait. Especially if the next RS6 is priced more competitively with the next M5 and the next E55 AMG Kompressor. I have no room or time to type up the others because there are way too many. Besides they are miscellaneous, mind boggling and non performance related. Besides, does anyone really give a damn anyway?
1. Significantly improved servotronic (probably electrohydraulic) power rack and pinion steering system.
2. Adjustable electronic sport air suspension system.
3. Improved Brembo high performance braking system.
4. Numerous traction and braking aides (Quattro, ESP, brake assist, etc).
5. 500 fewer lbs due to more rigid and much tighter all aluminum construction.
6. 550 hp and 490-500 lbs/ft of torque.
7. Significantly improved tiptronic six speed automatic transmission.
8. Wider 19 inch wheels with wider, lower profile 19 inch summer or all season performance tires.
9a. Near 50/50 front/rear weight distribution despite Quattro.
9b. This will be achieved by mounting the "non transverse" engine (which is still in the front) further back than the current model.
If the next RS6 is this good, it sure as hell will be well worth the wait. Especially if the next RS6 is priced more competitively with the next M5 and the next E55 AMG Kompressor. I have no room or time to type up the others because there are way too many. Besides they are miscellaneous, mind boggling and non performance related. Besides, does anyone really give a damn anyway?