esSsix sledJ'hammr

After 10 yrs of allowing my driver license lapse into obscurity, I've decided to return to the road. Just purchased a 2002 S6 Avant w/210684 km. Absolutely loving every minute I have had in the driver seat. A few caveat, the purge valve in the EVAP is setting off the CEL, the CD changer is faulty (err 3), rear driver side window won't budge (child safeT lock switch? broken only on one side?), headlight level MIL, and the alarm (interior motion sensor?) was triggered every 15-30 min on the first NIGHT only (stopped after daylight and never reoccurred).
These are minor probs I assume but will be dealt with immediately. Q. Should I get the Bentley Service manual OR the Repair manual OR both?
Thx in advance and glad to join the Audi Ownership community!

J

Just Me

Mots of those are unfamiliar to me. Sorry (well, actually, that's good, it means mine still work!). The bentley repair manula is supposedly much more complete. Since i despise their e-copy protection methods, i have paper and thus only the service manual.

If you search you will find many of the more common C5 issues. Check the timing belt service (its not the belt, its all the other stuff it rolls on); control arms, etc. The 4.2 is among the better motors Audi has made.

As to window - check motor, switch and lock-out. I assume the lock out would not affect onyl one window though.

Grant

GTA_Driver

Congratulations! It's a good car.

Get the repair manual, it is more complete. That's what i have. Also, it may hve difficulties running in newer versions of Windows, as it was designed to run on Windows XP. Just FYI.

The evap purge valve is about $140 from the dealer and you can replace it yourself, not hard.

The CD changer can be picked up on eBay for about the same.

Headlight level is likely one of the 2 leveling sensors malfunctioning. It is $115 from the dealer. But you need to know which one it is.

THUS get VCDS (aka VAG-COM) from Ross-Tech. It will be indispensable for scanning the car and figuring out all that's wrong with it.

esSsix sledJ'hammr

Quote:

Originally Posted by GTA_Driver

Congratulations! It's a good car.
Thank you, I've never been this excited about a station wagon, let alone a car!
Get the repair manual, it is more complete. That's what i have. Also, it may hve difficulties running in newer versions of Windows, as it was designed to run on Windows XP. Just FYI.
updated myself on all the Windows issues and crappy cross-ref. Have anyone tried www.alldatadiy.com, it's everything at your internet fingers, but you need to have access to the internet as you use it and it's supposedly the Bentley Repair verbatim.
The evap purge valve is about $140 from the dealer and you can replace it yourself, not hard.
The previous owner has had the purge valve replaced 3x in the last year, obviously his stealership was not properly diagnosing the prob, and just offered up a solution. The main symptom is that the CEL light goes off after code reset/purge valve replacement AND initial opening of gas filler cap. Could it be the LDP (Leak Detection Pump?)Any help/suggestion before my mechanic begin to blow the smoke machine up my pipes to detect for leaks. ; P
The CD changer can be picked up on eBay for about the same.
Thinking abt finding an RNS-E and replacing the CD changer altogether, any possible issues? I have to contact the dealer and get the radio codes.
Headlight level is likely one of the 2 leveling sensors malfunctioning. It is $115 from the dealer. But you need to know which one it is.
Previous owner just ignored the MIL, but PAID careful attention to all things mechanical. The ABS was over-hauled just a month before I got the car, $2500 bucks!
THUS get VCDS (aka VAG-COM) from Ross-Tech. It will be indispensable for scanning the car and figuring out all that's wrong with it.Was thinking I should get the Service Manual, although less info, might offer up layman tips on familiarizing with the car,then get the VCDS and repair (or go alldatadyi) when I know what I'm looking for--AND I'm looking for another S4 Avant cause I love this car so much!

@Just Me
It's great to get affirmation on this model/engine. The previous owner spared no expense at maintaining this car and I have ALL the service history, down to the last car tires rotation.

I got caught up in tuning this gem and caught sight of the Avantissimo and wanted to retro-Mod/bring it upto date on the looks and features. But after careful consideration, I find this car to be perfect as if it was designed by placing a silk cover over its form and just letting the subtle lines flow! But still love the Avantissimo, a back to the future look at a A8 inspired Avant.

regards
J

GTA_Driver

Since the valve has been replaced and keeps failing, the likely culprit is the evap charcoal canister.

Don't know who used alldatadiy.com but everyone here *generally* recommends Bentley. For a reason

I think RNS-E is plug and play into your 2002 S6, but not sure if there was a split in the year regarding this. A brand new RNS-E is $$$, maybe you can find a used one.

As for the ABS, it is a common failure (of the ABS control module). If you can take it off by yourself and install it back, it will cost you $180 or so to repair the module. The dealer likely installed a brand new one


And just FYI, VCDS != alldatadiy. VCDS is a diagnostic tool that allows you to talk to EVERY module in your Audi/VW. No other scan tool on the market lets you do that. And since you're looking at acquiring a second Audi, you really need this tool.

You can't diagnose issues by the book if you cannot scan individual modules. Save yourself money by not throwing parts at it.

2.7Lturbo

i use alldatadyi it fills in the gaps where the bentely is poor. fyi the paper bentley sucks, (of course the one i have)

get the CD version

esSsix sledJ'hammr

@GTA Driver,

Sorry, in my haste, I was not clear on the VCDS.

I am definitely getting the VCDS and the Repair Manual w/discount, the question is "when" for me (this week! or next 6 mo's) alldatadyi.com supposedly offers the Bentley Repair Manual on their site with updates and cross-links to related repairs so that all the needed maintenance can be approached at the same time. It's a much well thought out interface than the proprietary UI from Bentley (esp ref to the WinXP pro prerequisite.)

Of course the alldatadyi.com cannot be used to do OBD diagnostic readings. If this online version of Bentley's Repair Manual is as good as it is said to be on alldatadyi.com it might be worth the $44.95 unlimited updates for a five-year subscription vs. the 1 year update for the actual Bentley's at $100 w/Ross-Tech's $30-discount with VCDS licensing. It's a $55 difference and instant access and you're not crippled by WindowsXP (not a prob for me), just wonder if anyone else has tried?

J

Just Me

A car with a good service history is also very valuable. I happily pay up for a good car.

Is the timing belt done? With all the bits that actually fail, like the water pump and tensioner?

The weak link is the transmission, depending to some degree on manufacture date. I would service (not flush)_ it every 50k. Search - its a bit complicated, but do-able if tyou can get the car up really solidly and level.

Mine has abotu 90k on it and feels like new. Of course, i just did the suspension end-to-end. See video of the car running on the track.

Grant

esSsix sledJ'hammr

Quote:

Originally Posted by Just Me

A car with a good service history is also very valuable. I happily pay up for a good car.
Threw in an extra couple of Franklins for his meticulous service records.
Is the timing belt done? With all the bits that actually fail, like the water pump and tensioner?
Timing belt, rollers, pulleys, serpentine belt and tensioner at near 100k miles mark. I was biting my nails that my mechanic was gonna pull the dreaded 0420 code for catalytic converter. Looks like he dealt with that in '09 and had extended warranty (now out of warranty), but cats should last the lifetime of the car.
The weak link is the transmission, depending to some degree on manufacture date. I would service (not flush)_ it every 50k. Search - its a bit complicated, but do-able if tyou can get the car up really solidly and level.
I was day dreaming about a bi-turbo on the 4.2L, then found out the bean counters at the Audi offices had gone for transmission that had a lower threshold to just fit the engine--so the twin turbo idea went out the window. will definitely check on it's reliability, I believe most issues are with the CVT transmissions. I do know that only 1200 S6 was sent to the Americas in 2002 and this car was received in Quebec in July from Neckarsulm, Germany. Other than that I have no other specific manufacturer date. I'll check chassis number tomorrow
Mine has abotu 90k on it and feels like new. Of course, i just did the suspension end-to-end. See video of the car running on the track.
210684 km/130500 miles, growls like a bad kitten and the suspensions rides like they're on railroad tracks; steer it to where you want it and it goes.
Grant

Can't wait till it's tip top shape and track day!

esSsix sledJ'hammr

Update Aug 15, 2013
It's getting close to the quarter of a year mark with my C5 S6 Avant!
quick hit list of probs I had into the purchase:
CEL light, codes 16825 P0441 Fixed
EVAP Charcoal Cannister Replaced
Gas Filler Cap Replaced
broken Motion Sensor Toggle and Rear Lid Release buttons Replaced
passenger side Control Tabs for Power Seat Motor On Hold for a rainy day
p/s rear window regulator On Hold-window gets stuck intermittently
driver side rear window harness On Hold-window won't roll down
left side Self-Leveling Headlights sensors On Hold throwing MIL codes
Tail Light bulb blown Replaced
Antenna Weather Housing deteriorating but no leaks On Hold to be replaced
Symphony II CD Changer err3 On Hold
Some minimal oil leakage expected

What i did
Went through the service records, Bentley manuals, the forums and used VCDS.
The service records were indispensable, i was able to understand that the previous owner was well educated, but not mechanically/DIY inclined and was given the brush off at his services (I'll explain in later text), Bentley was OK installing and version control was PITA-that and with VCDS gave me the opportunity to know my Avant really well (I stumbled upon a dealership's parts website that gave me great blown out diagrams and part listing, don't want to mention the dealership in case hadn't meant for use by the general public...jimellisaudi ;-P ) The FORUMS was what got me thru a lot of the trouble shooting!

I was determined to get to the root of vapor sensor purge valve problem so i systematically ruled out the culprits! The gas cap was first, the gasket was cracked all around the side that seals the gas tank filler. Still threw codes. Then replaced the Charcoal Cannister, smelled heavily of gasoline but was the proper weight of 5ish pounds, so it wasn't retaining gasoline from overfilling the tank. It has never been replaced so i figured it was time. Still threw codes.
Now to the dreaded N80 valve, pulled the harness and replugged it, gave a sharp whack with a hard surface and i can hear it click and feel the valves open and close w/engine running. still throwing codes. i thought my last resort was to go to my mechanics shop and hook it up to a smoke machine. But before I did that I took N80 Purge Valve out and examined it. On the intake end, I located a small brass, fine mesh filter. Tapped it on a clean white paper and a 1/4 inch,1mm size solid chunk of charcoal falls out. Pulled out filter with a #8 screw, soaked in wd40, replace...BAM code is cleared! ran the 01-04-070 test on VCDS and EVAP is OK--NO SMOKE Machine for me! Couple hundred of miles and saved a couple hundred $$ on smoke machine and NO MORE CODE.

in short I replaced everything that I could and that was essential or didn't need intense investigating. Seems like the dealership that had serviced the original owners just did rudimentary analyst and service and didn't bother to replace the N80 valve (although he was charged for them over a period of three years!)bcause the valve retainer rubber that holds it in place was broken and looked frayed with time. His records shows that all the issues I have inherited were brought to the dealerships attention and the basic solutions was corroded harness or shorts and need replacements est quotes no less than $500 for each issues. I'll take apart the d/s rear door panels and check for water leakage and possible corrosions, but i'm sure its a broken plastic retention clip or something insignificant. Seems like the issues that were brought up was looked at, but just ran thru the motions...w/11 YO car, these little things would break from being pulled apart and snapped back in place. This was the case for the Rear Lid button i replaced. i wasn't being gentle, and as i was trying to slide it back into its snug housing in the d/s B pillar, i didn't angle it into place and snapped off a retainer--no biggie, for now, but be gentle when DIY.

Took out the Radio,cut the warranty sticker to look at the CD changer. Motor burnt out due to years of neglect with CD stuck in exit gate-I won't go into detail. Pulled out all the stuck CDs and the changer doesnt go thru its routine of trying to eject the disks anymore. Anyone have a CD changer I can swap in my Symphony II??

that's all for now! this is running longer than it should. Over all, a few minor problems and a GREAT vehicle!