2.8 Motor Died, Won't Start
01-08-2014, 11:35 AM
#1
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2.8 Motor Died, Won't Start
As the title states, my motor died on me.
I was driving about 40mph with my foot on the gas when all of a sudden the car dies on me. I was able to coast in the median to a stop. When I tried to start it again, it cranked and sounded like it wanted to start but wouldn't. AAA towed me home and my car has been sitting since (about a week). The weather has been very cold lately here in MN. I have a new battery and it seems all the electrical is ok.
In my research I've found a few things that could be the culprit:
Fuel pump
Fuel pump relay
Fuel filter
Fuel pressure regulator
ECM
Cam sensors
Also, how long after inserting the key should the EPC light go off? Even though the car isn't starting, shouldn't this light go off? I've read that only VAGCOM should be used to read EPC codes, any truth to that?
Rather than throw money and parts at the car I'd like to get any codes read but don't know anyone in my area with a VAGCOM (unless someone in the Twin Cities would like to help out when the weather warms a bit).
The car is at 148k miles and had the timing belt, all seals/gaskets, spark plugs changed within the last 6-8 months.
Rather than throw money and parts at the car I'd like to get any codes read but don't know anyone in my area with a VAGCOM (unless someone in the Twin Cities would like to help out when the weather warms a bit), otherwise, would a regular scanner do?
Thanks for all the help, so far I've completed all the above replacements myself and would like to tackle this one as well.
I was driving about 40mph with my foot on the gas when all of a sudden the car dies on me. I was able to coast in the median to a stop. When I tried to start it again, it cranked and sounded like it wanted to start but wouldn't. AAA towed me home and my car has been sitting since (about a week). The weather has been very cold lately here in MN. I have a new battery and it seems all the electrical is ok.
In my research I've found a few things that could be the culprit:
Fuel pump
Fuel pump relay
Fuel filter
Fuel pressure regulator
ECM
Cam sensors
Also, how long after inserting the key should the EPC light go off? Even though the car isn't starting, shouldn't this light go off? I've read that only VAGCOM should be used to read EPC codes, any truth to that?
Rather than throw money and parts at the car I'd like to get any codes read but don't know anyone in my area with a VAGCOM (unless someone in the Twin Cities would like to help out when the weather warms a bit).
The car is at 148k miles and had the timing belt, all seals/gaskets, spark plugs changed within the last 6-8 months.
Rather than throw money and parts at the car I'd like to get any codes read but don't know anyone in my area with a VAGCOM (unless someone in the Twin Cities would like to help out when the weather warms a bit), otherwise, would a regular scanner do?
Thanks for all the help, so far I've completed all the above replacements myself and would like to tackle this one as well.
01-08-2014, 04:34 PM
#3
I hope you did not just replace all those parts without ANY diagnosis? The fuel pump and relay can be tested with a $6 multimeter from harbor freight. Not trying to make you feel bad, I feel bad if you did this.
The symptoms you describe do not sound good. How many miles on the car? When did you last have the timing belt serviced?
A standard code reader will show SOME codes - but won't give you anywhere near the level of detail and diagnostic ability as a Vag-Com.
The first thing I would do is test your battery at this point, which I bet turns out to be good (unless you drained it down starting the car) and then I would test each cylinder for compression...I am leaning toward a failed timing belt and bent valves.
The symptoms you describe do not sound good. How many miles on the car? When did you last have the timing belt serviced?
A standard code reader will show SOME codes - but won't give you anywhere near the level of detail and diagnostic ability as a Vag-Com.
The first thing I would do is test your battery at this point, which I bet turns out to be good (unless you drained it down starting the car) and then I would test each cylinder for compression...I am leaning toward a failed timing belt and bent valves.
01-08-2014, 07:55 PM
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01-09-2014, 10:53 AM
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jseklund - I meant that the timing belt, seals/gaskets, and spark plugs were all changed recently, less than 10,000 miles. I installed the timing belt kit and seals/gaskets from Blauparts. I was listing things that I thought could be the problem for this issue, not what I did.
I did the timing belt with help from a local audi Indy shop in May/June. Is there a quick way to check the belt without removing all the covers, bumper, etc?
I have a multimeter but am unsure of where the fuel pump relay - any help with the procedure?
Steveinky - I'd like to try and at least diagnose this myself. I got new control arms, struts, and springs and would rather not have to spend any more than I already have. I'll keep the number handy though.
I did the timing belt with help from a local audi Indy shop in May/June. Is there a quick way to check the belt without removing all the covers, bumper, etc?
I have a multimeter but am unsure of where the fuel pump relay - any help with the procedure?
Steveinky - I'd like to try and at least diagnose this myself. I got new control arms, struts, and springs and would rather not have to spend any more than I already have. I'll keep the number handy though.
01-09-2014, 11:10 AM
#6
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As the title states, my motor died on me.
I was driving about 40mph with my foot on the gas when all of a sudden the car dies on me. I was able to coast in the median to a stop. When I tried to start it again, it cranked and sounded like it wanted to start but wouldn't. AAA towed me home and my car has been sitting since (about a week). The weather has been very cold lately here in MN. I have a new battery and it seems all the electrical is ok.
In my research I've found a few things that could be the culprit:
Fuel pump
Fuel pump relay
Fuel filter
Fuel pressure regulator
ECM
Cam sensors
Also, how long after inserting the key should the EPC light go off? Even though the car isn't starting, shouldn't this light go off? I've read that only VAGCOM should be used to read EPC codes, any truth to that?
Rather than throw money and parts at the car I'd like to get any codes read but don't know anyone in my area with a VAGCOM (unless someone in the Twin Cities would like to help out when the weather warms a bit).
The car is at 148k miles and had the timing belt, all seals/gaskets, spark plugs changed within the last 6-8 months.
Rather than throw money and parts at the car I'd like to get any codes read but don't know anyone in my area with a VAGCOM (unless someone in the Twin Cities would like to help out when the weather warms a bit), otherwise, would a regular scanner do?
Thanks for all the help, so far I've completed all the above replacements myself and would like to tackle this one as well.
I was driving about 40mph with my foot on the gas when all of a sudden the car dies on me. I was able to coast in the median to a stop. When I tried to start it again, it cranked and sounded like it wanted to start but wouldn't. AAA towed me home and my car has been sitting since (about a week). The weather has been very cold lately here in MN. I have a new battery and it seems all the electrical is ok.
In my research I've found a few things that could be the culprit:
Fuel pump
Fuel pump relay
Fuel filter
Fuel pressure regulator
ECM
Cam sensors
Also, how long after inserting the key should the EPC light go off? Even though the car isn't starting, shouldn't this light go off? I've read that only VAGCOM should be used to read EPC codes, any truth to that?
Rather than throw money and parts at the car I'd like to get any codes read but don't know anyone in my area with a VAGCOM (unless someone in the Twin Cities would like to help out when the weather warms a bit).
The car is at 148k miles and had the timing belt, all seals/gaskets, spark plugs changed within the last 6-8 months.
Rather than throw money and parts at the car I'd like to get any codes read but don't know anyone in my area with a VAGCOM (unless someone in the Twin Cities would like to help out when the weather warms a bit), otherwise, would a regular scanner do?
Thanks for all the help, so far I've completed all the above replacements myself and would like to tackle this one as well.
Most likely a crankshaft position sensor…about the only thing that would cause it to go dead like that. Fuel, maybe, but highly unusual unless you got a really bad tank. Frozen fuel line is one possibility but unlikely since you were moving…the fuel pump recycles unused fuel back to the tank and thus if it ran at all it shouldn't freeze while you're running, even with bad gas.
Vag-com is your friend. But don't kill the battery in minus zero temperature..the discharged battery will freeze and perhaps blow up when you try to jump it.
01-09-2014, 11:35 AM
#7
When you did the timing belt, did you use the cam locking bar AND the crankshaft locking pin? The only way to check timing is to take it down to the sprockets and put the bar on with the crankshaft pin in place. Did you torque all the pulleys to spec?
In order to test the fuel pump, pull up the back seat (just give it a tug)and you will see two round covers. Unscrew the cover on the passenger side and you will see the top of the fuel pump.
Have someone turn on the ignition to accessory (don't start the car) and you should hear the pump make an audible noise. If it doesn't sound like it is spinning, then you need to test the relay and wiring.
You can turn it and it will lift out. Disconnect the electrical connector and have someone turn on the ignition (to accessory, don't start the car) and you should see voltage that is roughly equal to the battery voltage (10-12V is spec I believe). If you see voltage here, then your relay is working fine. If there is no voltage, then you have a blown relay.
If you have voltage, then you want to test the continuity of the wires that go from the electrical connector on the cover of the pump to the motor itself. If you don't have continuity, then you need to fix it. If you do have continuity, and the pump isn't spinning up when you turn the car on accessory, your pump is shot.
When you open the cover, it is recommended you have less than either 1/2 or 1/4 tank (can't remember) as some fuel could spill.
The other thing you can do is to disconnect the fuel line at the injector rail (it screws on) and put it in a cup to catch gas and have someone crank the car - you should see fuel coming out. If not, something is going wrong before that (filter, pump, relay). Be careful hear, gas will come out fast!
The crank position sensor is also a good idea...
I would check the fuel rail and see if you have fuel, and then try to figure out if I had a bad CPS, and then try to confirm timing and compression....
In order to test the fuel pump, pull up the back seat (just give it a tug)and you will see two round covers. Unscrew the cover on the passenger side and you will see the top of the fuel pump.
Have someone turn on the ignition to accessory (don't start the car) and you should hear the pump make an audible noise. If it doesn't sound like it is spinning, then you need to test the relay and wiring.
You can turn it and it will lift out. Disconnect the electrical connector and have someone turn on the ignition (to accessory, don't start the car) and you should see voltage that is roughly equal to the battery voltage (10-12V is spec I believe). If you see voltage here, then your relay is working fine. If there is no voltage, then you have a blown relay.
If you have voltage, then you want to test the continuity of the wires that go from the electrical connector on the cover of the pump to the motor itself. If you don't have continuity, then you need to fix it. If you do have continuity, and the pump isn't spinning up when you turn the car on accessory, your pump is shot.
When you open the cover, it is recommended you have less than either 1/2 or 1/4 tank (can't remember) as some fuel could spill.
The other thing you can do is to disconnect the fuel line at the injector rail (it screws on) and put it in a cup to catch gas and have someone crank the car - you should see fuel coming out. If not, something is going wrong before that (filter, pump, relay). Be careful hear, gas will come out fast!
The crank position sensor is also a good idea...
I would check the fuel rail and see if you have fuel, and then try to figure out if I had a bad CPS, and then try to confirm timing and compression....
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01-13-2014, 10:15 AM
#8
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The timing belt was done with the locking bar and crank pin and everything was reassembled and torqued to spec.
I haven't done much yet as I'm waiting on the VagCom I ordered. Once I'm able to get it properly scanned I'll post those findings. Thanks for the help.
I haven't done much yet as I'm waiting on the VagCom I ordered. Once I'm able to get it properly scanned I'll post those findings. Thanks for the help.
01-13-2014, 03:16 PM
#9
The timing belt was done with the locking bar and crank pin and everything was reassembled and torqued to spec.
I haven't done much yet as I'm waiting on the VagCom I ordered. Once I'm able to get it properly scanned I'll post those findings. Thanks for the help.
I haven't done much yet as I'm waiting on the VagCom I ordered. Once I'm able to get it properly scanned I'll post those findings. Thanks for the help.
01-15-2014, 12:09 AM
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Just be careful here about the VAC-COM reader. That thing will not detect a faulty crankshaft position sensor. You have not commented on the fuel pump checks mentioned earlier. If your fuel pump is not coming in you need to check the crank position sensor coz if it's open the FP will not come in (I think this was designed to avoid fuel flooding).