skprodz

Hello,

The Issue: At Very very very very soft acceleration, car goes into 3rd, then around 25mph it feels like it's about to go into 4th but it doesn't and starts jerking around vibrating the car, eventually as a little more speed picks it will go into 4th then 5th normally.
If I use a bit more pace and get to 35mph when it goes into 4 it goes normal as does 5 and everything else. When using really light throttle it's really annoying. Oh and this only happens when its up at operating temp..

How i repaired it:
1- I changed transmission filter, oil, filled with 7 quart at 35C
Conclusion: i tought it was okay, but problem occured again.
2- I drained oil again, thinking it was too duty, filled with 4.6quart
Conclusion: Did not fix it.

So i'v started my car (cold) and logged a run until problem occurs.

Torque increase Engine RPM Gear engaged Acceleration ATF Temp TCC Solenoid Torque conv. TC stall speed PC Valve 1 PC Valve 2 PC Valve 3 Pr Reg Valve 5
TIME in TC m/sec/sec TIME N218 (TCC-2345) clutch TIME N215 (All Gears) N216 (RN135-2/1) N217 (RN123-2/1 5/4) N233 (RN12-2/1)
Marker STAMP /min m/s^2 STAMP °C A /min STAMP A A A A
0.02 1.00 1120 5 24.811 0.28 66.0 0.448 Torq.Conv.Reg 96 0.55 0.736 0.800 0.096 0.096
0.84 1.00 1088 5 0.000 1.11 67.0 0.496 Torq.Conv.Reg 160 1.40 0.736 0.800 0.096 0.096
1.68 1.04 1280 5 0.292 1.95 66.0 0.544 Torq.Conv.Reg 160 2.24 0.736 0.800 0.096 0.096
2.52 1.00 1088 5 0.486 2.80 66.0 0.536 Torq.Conv.Reg 0 3.08 0.736 0.800 0.096 0.096
3.37 1.03 1312 5 0.389 3.64 66.0 0.544 Torq.Conv.Reg 128 3.92 0.736 0.800 0.096 0.096
4.21 1.00 1120 5 0.486 4.48 65.0 0.528 Torq.Conv.Reg 96 4.77 0.736 0.800 0.096 0.096
5.05 1.00 1248 5 0.486 5.33 64.0 0.536 Torq.Conv.Reg 64 5.61 0.736 0.800 0.096 0.096
5.89 1.00 1344 5 0.292 6.17 64.0 0.536 Torq.Conv.Reg 224 6.45 0.736 0.800 0.096 0.096
6.74 1.00 1248 5 0.486 7.01 64.0 0.520 Torq.Conv.Reg 0 7.30 0.736 0.800 0.096 0.096
7.57 1.01 1440 5 0.389 7.85 64.0 0.464 Torq.Conv.Reg 160 8.14 0.736 0.800 0.096 0.096
8.41 1.00 1248 5 24.811 8.70 65.0 0.408 Torq.Conv.Reg 0 8.98 0.736 0.800 0.096 0.096
9.25 1.00 1184 5 24.714 9.54 65.0 0.408 Torq.Conv.Reg 0 9.82 0.736 0.800 0.096 0.096



When torq is in "conv.reg" mod, the vibration/hunting begin at light trottle. But in torq OPEN, everything was fine.

3- Fixing the problem bypass of the conv.reg mod. Conv.reg is only applyed when tranny oil reach 20 degree celcius.

Near the TCU, i cutted wire 21 and 22 ( the temperature oil sensor wire ) and put a resistance of 889ohm 2watt. This make the TCU think oil is at 12degree celius. No limp mod, no check engine, and tranny now operating like a charm. at 60km/h , light trottle, no more vibration in fourth or fifty gear at about 1150rpm.

GTA_Driver

Excellent troubleshooting and repair. My shudder was fixed with oil change.

Edit: are you sure about your transmission code? My 4.2 has 5HP24.

skprodz

I cannot edit my title; im talking about the 5HP24 , been confused i'v read a lot of about these tranny.

hanszuko

Hello,

I I have exactly the same problems when the engine is hot. Frio runs smoothly.

I tested with vagcom and TC showed never closed or locked ..

I have problems with the TC?

That put a circuit resistance not think it's the ultimate solution to the problem, the transmission may fail.

Deputy my values.

Thursday 6 June 2013 18:32:40:32264 VCDS Version: Release 11.11.3 Data version: 20120401
4B0 927 156 CH 1313 AG5 01L RDW 4.2l5V

Group A: '001 Group B: '007 Group C: '009
"Engine RPM" Input Output RPM RPM Trans. Temp ATF Gear TCC Solenoid Torque conv. TC stall speed torque Engine Required Throttle RPM Torque Current value
TIME G182 (0-8200) G195 (0-8200) TIME N218 (TCC-2345) TIME clutch Nm Nm% of WOT
Marker STAMP / min / min / min STAMP ° C A / min STAMP Nm / min% Nm
576 0 0 0.27 0.56 62 0.096 1m TC Open 576 0.01 16 576 0 28
1m 1.12 1.4 576 0 0 0 096 62 TC Open 576 0.84 16 576 0 28
768 0 0 1.96 2.24 62 0.096 1m TC Open 928 1.68 28 608 5.2 48
1m 2.8 1184 160 32 62 0.096 3.09 TC Open 992 2.53 96 1024 13.6 156
1m 3.64 3.93 1248 480 128 62 0.096 TC Open 736 3.37 104 1248 13.6 156
1m 4.49 4.78 1312 704 192 62 0.096 TC Open 576 4.21 104 1312 13.6 140
1m 5.35 5.65 1344 832 224 62 0.096 TC Open 384 5.07 96 1344 13.6 120
1m 6.22 896 224 1088 6.5 62 0.096 Open TC 96 5.94 64 1248 6.8 72
800 736 192 7.06 7.35 62 0.096 1m Open TC 64 6.79 8 864 0 8
704 576 160 7.9 8.19 62 0.096 1m TC Open 288 7.63 8 704 0 8
1m 8.74 9.03 896 544 160 62 0.096 TC Open 224 8.46 44 992 0.8 60
640 544 128 9.59 9.87 62 0.096 TC 1m Open 96 9.3 8 704 0 8
608 512 128 10.43 10.71 63 0.096 1m Open TC 96 10.15 12 608 0 12
1m 11.28 11.56 864 512 128 62 0.096 TC Open 320 10.99 40 672 4.8 44
1m 12.14 12.43 928 640 160 62 0.096 TC Open 352 11.84 40 896 4.8 48
1m 12.99 13.27 1216 832 224 0.096 62 TC Open 320 12.7 76 1184 9.2 92
1m 13.83 14.12 1248 992 256 0.096 63 TC Open 192 13.55 68 1216 9.2 72
1m 14.68 1280 1120 288 14.96 62 0.096 TC Open 128 14.39 64 1280 9.2 64
1m 15.52 1312 1216 320 15.8 63 0.096 TC Open 128 15.23 52 1312 9.2 52
1m 16.36 16.64 1120 768 352 0.096 62 TC Open 352 16.08 56 1152 9.2 68
1m 17.21 17.5 1184 864 384 63 0.096 TC Open 288 16.92 68 1184 9.2 76
18.06 1216 992 448 2 18.35 62 0,096 TC Open 224 17.78 64 1216 9.2 68
18.9 1280 1088 480 2 19.19 63 0,096 TC Open 128 18.62 60 1248 9.2 60
19.76 1312 1184 544 2 20.05 62 0,096 TC Open 128 19.47 60 1312 9.2 60
20.62 1408 1280 576 2 20.9 62 0,096 TC Open 96 20.32 56 1376 10 56
21.46 1504 1376 608 2 21.75 62 0,096 TC Open 128 21.18 60 1472 11.6 56
22.32 1568 1440 640 2 22.62 62 0,096 TC Open 96 22.03 64 1536 12 64
23.18 1600 1504 672 2 23.47 62 0,096 TC Open 96 22.9 60 1600 12 60
24.05 1632 1536 704 2 24.34 63 0,096 TC Open 96 23.76 56 1632 12 60
24.9 1696 1600 704 2 25.2 62 0,096 TC Open 160 24.61 64 1696 12.8 64
25.78 1376 1120 736 2 26.07 62 0,472 Torq.Conv.Reg 224 25.49 68 1536 12.8 68
26.62 1376 1120 736 2 26.91 62 0.44 Torq.Conv.Reg 192 26.34 80 1376 12 80
27.47 1248 1152 768 3 27.76 63 0,424 Torq.Conv.Reg 0 27.18 80 1312 9.2 80
28.34 1184 1152 768 3 28.63 63 0,408 Torq.Conv.Reg 0 28.04 36 1184 4.4 40
29.19 1216 1152 768 3 29.47 62 0,456 Torq.Conv.Reg 160 28.9 8 1152 3.6 8
30.03 1344 1184 768 3 30.32 62 0.48 Torq.Conv.Reg 128 29.74 132 1312 18.8 132
30.88 1376 1280 832 3 31.17 63 0,488 Torq.Conv.Reg 96 30.6 164 1344 19.6 164
31.73 1376 1312 864 3 32.01 63 0,472 Torq.Conv.Reg 0 31.44 152 1376 17.6 156
32.57 1536 1408 928 3 32.86 63 0,464 Torq.Conv.Reg 96 32.28 144 1472 17.2 144
33.41 1504 1472 960 3 33.7 63 0,464 Torq.Conv.Reg 0 33.13 124 1536 16.4 124
34.26 1632 1536 992 3 34.53 63 0,456 Torq.Conv.Reg 96 33.97 120 1504 16.4 120
35.12 1600 1536 1024 3 35.4 63 0,424 Torq.Conv.Reg 32 34.82 108 1664 12.4 108
35.98 1472 1536 1024 3 36.26 63 0,408 Torq.Conv.Reg 64 35.69 12 1568 0 16
36.83 1408 1504 992 3 37.1 63 0,408 Torq.Conv.Reg 64 36.54 -12 1440 0 -12
37.67 1312 1440 960 3 37.95 63 0,416 Torq.Conv.Reg 64 37.39 -20 1344 0 -20
38.53 1280 1344 896 3 38.81 63 0,416 Torq.Conv.Reg 64 38.24 -20 1312 0 -20
39.37 1184 1248 832 3 39.65 63 0,416 Torq.Conv.Reg 64 39.09 -16 1216 0 -16
40.23 1120 1184 768 3 40.51 62 0,416 Torq.Conv.Reg 32 39.94 -12 1120 0 -12
41.08 1088 1120 736 3 41.36 62 0,416 Torq.Conv.Reg 32 40.79 -12 1088 0 -12
41.94 1056 1088 704 3 42.23 63 0,416 Torq.Conv.Reg 32 41.65 -12 1056 0 -12
42.81 992 1024 672 3 43.08 63 0,096 TC Open 64 42.52 -12 1024 0 -12
43.65 800 928 608 3 43.93 62 0,096 TC Open 64 43.36 -12 864 0 -12
44.51 736 736 480 3 44.78 63 0,096 44.22 TC 8768 Open 32 0 -8
45.35 640 544 352 3 45.62 63 0,096 Open TC 128 45.06 0 672 0 0
46.19 608 352 224 3 46.46 63 0,096 Open TC 128 45.91 12 608 0 16

SloopJohnB@mac.com

So you essentially disabled converter lockup. It will work until it doesn't.
What happens according to everything I've read from ZF and other rebuilders is that the TC gets loaded with friction material and doesn't want to lock/unlock. As long as the rest of the transmission is working the trans will work as a torque-converter only with some loss of highway mileage.
Until it doesn't.

hanszuko

As I can get that TC friction material?

You can take just changing the oil and filter?

SloopJohnB@mac.com

Not really understanding your question, but a lot of TC friction material gets loaded up or stuck in the TC and never gets out until rebuild.

Just Me

Torque converter friction material?

isn't that "vanes and oil"?

-confused

Grant

69gaugeman

There is a clutch and piston built into the torque convertor. When the car is running at low load the TC will actually "slip" as the fluid goes from compressed to uncompressed. This 'clutch' then locks the TC so there is zero slip. The slip is in ALL automatic transmissions. It is what allows you sit at a light with your foot on the brake and not stall the engine. As the speed differential increases, the torque transfer is increased up to a maximum of around 95%. Your car will run all day long without the lockup and you lose some fuel economy.

The friction material talked about here is the material in all the clutches in the transmission. They circulate as you drive the car.

hanszuko

Hello,

Update ...

I changed ATF and vibration also decreased enough rpm fluctuations but are still there.

The oil not only was black looked very thin.

I did not find scrap metal or anything.

Lei is good to do an adaptation of the TCU with vagcom

are saying??

Greetings from Chile.