All control arms (front and rear) on A6 and Passat are wear items? 60k = replace!!?
07-28-2010, 04:48 PM
#11
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I agree with you about OEM 100%. If I had the $$$ to spend I would get them straight from audi.I think they are the best, without a doubt.
The problem is that this car now has ~92k miles and everything is broken.its to the point that I just need it running for the family and it will probably be sold in the not too distant future. Plus, I will be performing all the labour except the alignment
$300 for aftermarket vs at least $600 for the next step up to febi etc. To make it worse I have seen posters commenting of febi, meyle, and ocap breaking early and they dont have a highly regarded free replacement warranty. If I could find ONE solid, articulate post showing that fcp kits are trash compared to oem, I would spring for oem. I just cant find any compelling evidence.
Can you post me the links you have?
Thanks!
Brian
The problem is that this car now has ~92k miles and everything is broken.its to the point that I just need it running for the family and it will probably be sold in the not too distant future. Plus, I will be performing all the labour except the alignment
$300 for aftermarket vs at least $600 for the next step up to febi etc. To make it worse I have seen posters commenting of febi, meyle, and ocap breaking early and they dont have a highly regarded free replacement warranty. If I could find ONE solid, articulate post showing that fcp kits are trash compared to oem, I would spring for oem. I just cant find any compelling evidence.
Can you post me the links you have?
Thanks!
Brian
07-28-2010, 05:22 PM
#12
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if you are doing the labor, and plan to sell the car soon (92k is nothing btw) - you are making a realistic decision. I agree. I disagree with selling a car worth nothing, but if you are determined to ditch it, you are doing the right thing.
The OEM parts, i find will go 75-100k. Just like yours now.
My take is once i do the CA and the triming belt, i'm largely good for another 75k. My S6 will probably be with me 10 more years.
So if you're selling so soon, why care about the warranty at all - putem in, run it, sell it.
Incidentally, you can extend life by greasing them with a hypo needle whenever they begin to squeqak or groan. I do my old C4 rear BJs and upper arm pivots basically annually. I bet i never replace the parts.
G
The OEM parts, i find will go 75-100k. Just like yours now.
My take is once i do the CA and the triming belt, i'm largely good for another 75k. My S6 will probably be with me 10 more years.
So if you're selling so soon, why care about the warranty at all - putem in, run it, sell it.
Incidentally, you can extend life by greasing them with a hypo needle whenever they begin to squeqak or groan. I do my old C4 rear BJs and upper arm pivots basically annually. I bet i never replace the parts.
G
08-22-2010, 03:10 PM
#17
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Just a follow up on progress. 2000 A6 2.7t 92k miles
I ordered the "chinese" control arm kit from FCPgroton.com and the shock kit from Blauparts.com. For me, this appeared to be a reasonably priced solution as I only plan on keeping the car another year or two. From there the car will either be given to my brother in law or traded in.
Control arms:
The price was $275 shipped with the lifetime warranty. Just mention the audizine special price.
http://www.fcpgroton.com/product-exe...ategory_id/183
I did the research on the audizine.com website and this kit includes some upgraded parts like solid steel tie rod ends and the upper, front control arms found on the Audi S4.
I couldnt get reliable input on how much "worse" these knockoffs are, so I am posting some pictures comparing them to the OEM parts pulled from the car. If anyone can comment on how these compare to Febi, meyle etc, it might help other forum members.
Its a bit difficult to objectively compare parts since the oems were broken and worn out, but it appears that the fcp kit has been cast to near identical specs. The ball joints felt tight, smooth, and well greased. The rubber joints were precisely molded, and the steel used in the seemed to be the same quality as OEM. It appears that as far as how the pieces were cast, cut and assembled, they are comparable to the OEM.
Below are some pics. I'm sorry I didnt take better pics for comparison's sake, I just felt like the process was taking too long and wanted to get back to the installation.
There is a notch on the factory upper arm, not found on the newer.
<a href="http://www.flickr.com/photos/45398191@N03/4917161871/" title="IMG_0254 by Flickraccount1868, on Flickr"><img src="http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4073/4917161871_5354802e4d_z.jpg" width="640" height="480" alt="IMG_0254" /></a>
There is a slightly different bend to the new versions
<a href="http://www.flickr.com/photos/45398191@N03/4917159347/" title="IMG_0256 by Flickraccount1868, on Flickr"><img src="http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4135/4917159347_4d564e0a50_z.jpg" width="640" height="480" alt="IMG_0256" /></a>
The newer S4 version is a lot larger than stock
<a href="http://www.flickr.com/photos/45398191@N03/4917763514/" title="IMG_0253 by Flickraccount1868, on Flickr"><img src="http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4123/4917763514_afc42ed191_z.jpg" width="640" height="480" alt="IMG_0253" /></a>
The lowers looked almost identical to stock, iirc...
<a href="http://www.flickr.com/photos/45398191@N03/4917155923/" title="IMG_0259 by Flickraccount1868, on Flickr"><img src="http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4120/4917155923_f3295de368_z.jpg" width="640" height="480" alt="IMG_0259" /></a>
<a href="http://www.flickr.com/photos/45398191@N03/4917753234/" title="IMG_0261 by Flickraccount1868, on Flickr"><img src="http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4115/4917753234_2da4fd901f_z.jpg" width="640" height="480" alt="IMG_0261" /></a>
Its funny, but the orange colored rubber piece found on the new arm must have fallen out of my old one. Nice.
<a href="http://www.flickr.com/photos/45398191@N03/4917150363/" title="IMG_0263 by Flickraccount1868, on Flickr"><img src="http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4081/4917150363_32197f125d_z.jpg" width="480" height="640" alt="IMG_0263" /></a>
Tie rod ends - (note these are the solid steel versions, yet the socket is a lot larger on the OEM)
<a href="http://www.flickr.com/photos/45398191@N03/4917142533/" title="IMG_0270 by Flickraccount1868, on Flickr"><img src="http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4121/4917142533_a0ce4e511f_z.jpg" width="640" height="480" alt="IMG_0270" /></a>
The new tie rods include the joint that threads into the steering rack. Very heavy duty.
<a href="http://www.flickr.com/photos/45398191@N03/4917141405/" title="IMG_0271 by Flickraccount1868, on Flickr"><img src="http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4079/4917141405_90db95533e_z.jpg" width="640" height="480" alt="IMG_0271" /></a>
Control arm review:
After installation, all of the annoying clunking disappeared. It turns out that 3 out of the 4 upper arms were broken and all of the other parts were dramatically worn. The only complaint I have is that the car still doesn’t feel as solid as I hoped for. The front end still feels like there are sporadic vibrations though the pedals. Make no mistake, the feeling is dramatically better, I just thought it would be tight as a drum. Perhaps its how these things feel..?
Note: I torqued every bolt to specs I found off this site with the suspension in the loaded position.
The best news is that during hard cornering the gold ol’ Audi feel was back in full force. I was actually smiling as I put the car through it’s paces. The car still feels heavy as $hit, but the feedback now feels more refined through the steering wheel. BTW, I cannot express how badly these cars need larger brakes. lol
Bottom line, I'm happy with the build quality of these cheaper parts and only time will tell if the internals are up to snuff. I have yet to hear from anyone with long term experience, but I have heard both bad and good stories about these along with bad stories about TWR, Febi, meyle etc. maybe improper installation is a factor. I just dont know.
One thing I am sure of, is that if I was planning on keeping the car a lot longer, I would have went with OEM parts. I highly recommend that other posters shell out the extra $ and do it correctly. Serious.
Funny though, during this project, I spent extra $ on misc parts, restored the yellowed headlights to new, replaced 3 of the 5 differential seals that were leaking, and installed new Akebono brake pads. Whoever gets this car eventually, will be in luck.
Shocks
The price for the entry level Blausport kit was $425 shipped from Blauparts.com. http://www.blauparts.com/proddetail.asp?prod=MGR1016-A
This kit includes all the stuff I would consider beneficial except for new, rubber spring perches. (the rubber base that the springs sit on.) If I could have added just these new spring perches for ~$30-40, I would have done that.
Here is a link illustrating both the standard and the enhanced kit.
http://www.blausportshocksstruts.com....html#improved
Its interesting that the new rubber pieces and some of the bolts are genuine Audi parts. Blausport simply rubbed out the audi logo for legal reasons.
From my understanding, the shocks are specially valved KYB units. They boast a bright blue color and have the blausport logo engraved on the body. Plus, these units have larger, 50mm bodies that older A6s didn’t come with. Typically, KYB isnt a brand to recommend, but their quality seems to be on par with the sachs and bilstein OEM versions.
Shock Pics:
<a href="http://www.flickr.com/photos/45398191@N03/4917736412/" title="IMG_0275 by Flickraccount1868, on Flickr"><img src="http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4135/4917736412_84b14832a0_z.jpg" width="640" height="480" alt="IMG_0275" /></a>
<a href="http://www.flickr.com/photos/45398191@N03/4917134991/" title="IMG_0276 by Flickraccount1868, on Flickr"><img src="http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4095/4917134991_5bea0f4dce_z.jpg" width="640" height="480" alt="IMG_0276" /></a>
<a href="http://www.flickr.com/photos/45398191@N03/4917733784/" title="IMG_0277 by Flickraccount1868, on Flickr"><img src="http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4080/4917733784_3606dafc9a_z.jpg" width="640" height="480" alt="IMG_0277" /></a>
Shock review:
First observation is that these are NOT a firm shock. Blauparts calls them quality replacement shock not intended for S series cars or aftermarket springs, but I thought they would be stiffer. After 200k+ miles on my ford truck, I have went through 3 sets of HD bilsteins, and remembering how much stiffer the HDs were than the factory, I guess I expected something similar to that with these replacements on the audi. Nevertheless, they are an excellent replacement option at an exceptional cost. The Bilsteins would have been ~$600 without ANY of the replacement hardware found on the blausport kit.
Again, if you are planning on keeping the car, I would highly recommend the HD Bilsteins if on a budget or new springs and sport bilsteins on a fat wallet. I would love to drive an A6 2.7t with a proper bilstein coil-over setup.
Finally, a pic most of us Audi owners are all too familiar with: The car up on blocks. lol
<a href="http://www.flickr.com/photos/45398191@N03/4918084540/" title="IMG_0226 by Flickraccount1868, on Flickr"><img src="http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4114/4918084540_8d549137d9_b.jpg" width="768" height="1024" alt="IMG_0226" /></a>
I ordered the "chinese" control arm kit from FCPgroton.com and the shock kit from Blauparts.com. For me, this appeared to be a reasonably priced solution as I only plan on keeping the car another year or two. From there the car will either be given to my brother in law or traded in.
Control arms:
The price was $275 shipped with the lifetime warranty. Just mention the audizine special price.
http://www.fcpgroton.com/product-exe...ategory_id/183
I did the research on the audizine.com website and this kit includes some upgraded parts like solid steel tie rod ends and the upper, front control arms found on the Audi S4.
I couldnt get reliable input on how much "worse" these knockoffs are, so I am posting some pictures comparing them to the OEM parts pulled from the car. If anyone can comment on how these compare to Febi, meyle etc, it might help other forum members.
Its a bit difficult to objectively compare parts since the oems were broken and worn out, but it appears that the fcp kit has been cast to near identical specs. The ball joints felt tight, smooth, and well greased. The rubber joints were precisely molded, and the steel used in the seemed to be the same quality as OEM. It appears that as far as how the pieces were cast, cut and assembled, they are comparable to the OEM.
Below are some pics. I'm sorry I didnt take better pics for comparison's sake, I just felt like the process was taking too long and wanted to get back to the installation.
There is a notch on the factory upper arm, not found on the newer.
<a href="http://www.flickr.com/photos/45398191@N03/4917161871/" title="IMG_0254 by Flickraccount1868, on Flickr"><img src="http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4073/4917161871_5354802e4d_z.jpg" width="640" height="480" alt="IMG_0254" /></a>
There is a slightly different bend to the new versions
<a href="http://www.flickr.com/photos/45398191@N03/4917159347/" title="IMG_0256 by Flickraccount1868, on Flickr"><img src="http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4135/4917159347_4d564e0a50_z.jpg" width="640" height="480" alt="IMG_0256" /></a>
The newer S4 version is a lot larger than stock
<a href="http://www.flickr.com/photos/45398191@N03/4917763514/" title="IMG_0253 by Flickraccount1868, on Flickr"><img src="http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4123/4917763514_afc42ed191_z.jpg" width="640" height="480" alt="IMG_0253" /></a>
The lowers looked almost identical to stock, iirc...
<a href="http://www.flickr.com/photos/45398191@N03/4917155923/" title="IMG_0259 by Flickraccount1868, on Flickr"><img src="http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4120/4917155923_f3295de368_z.jpg" width="640" height="480" alt="IMG_0259" /></a>
<a href="http://www.flickr.com/photos/45398191@N03/4917753234/" title="IMG_0261 by Flickraccount1868, on Flickr"><img src="http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4115/4917753234_2da4fd901f_z.jpg" width="640" height="480" alt="IMG_0261" /></a>
Its funny, but the orange colored rubber piece found on the new arm must have fallen out of my old one. Nice.
<a href="http://www.flickr.com/photos/45398191@N03/4917150363/" title="IMG_0263 by Flickraccount1868, on Flickr"><img src="http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4081/4917150363_32197f125d_z.jpg" width="480" height="640" alt="IMG_0263" /></a>
Tie rod ends - (note these are the solid steel versions, yet the socket is a lot larger on the OEM)
<a href="http://www.flickr.com/photos/45398191@N03/4917142533/" title="IMG_0270 by Flickraccount1868, on Flickr"><img src="http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4121/4917142533_a0ce4e511f_z.jpg" width="640" height="480" alt="IMG_0270" /></a>
The new tie rods include the joint that threads into the steering rack. Very heavy duty.
<a href="http://www.flickr.com/photos/45398191@N03/4917141405/" title="IMG_0271 by Flickraccount1868, on Flickr"><img src="http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4079/4917141405_90db95533e_z.jpg" width="640" height="480" alt="IMG_0271" /></a>
Control arm review:
After installation, all of the annoying clunking disappeared. It turns out that 3 out of the 4 upper arms were broken and all of the other parts were dramatically worn. The only complaint I have is that the car still doesn’t feel as solid as I hoped for. The front end still feels like there are sporadic vibrations though the pedals. Make no mistake, the feeling is dramatically better, I just thought it would be tight as a drum. Perhaps its how these things feel..?
Note: I torqued every bolt to specs I found off this site with the suspension in the loaded position.
The best news is that during hard cornering the gold ol’ Audi feel was back in full force. I was actually smiling as I put the car through it’s paces. The car still feels heavy as $hit, but the feedback now feels more refined through the steering wheel. BTW, I cannot express how badly these cars need larger brakes. lol
Bottom line, I'm happy with the build quality of these cheaper parts and only time will tell if the internals are up to snuff. I have yet to hear from anyone with long term experience, but I have heard both bad and good stories about these along with bad stories about TWR, Febi, meyle etc. maybe improper installation is a factor. I just dont know.
One thing I am sure of, is that if I was planning on keeping the car a lot longer, I would have went with OEM parts. I highly recommend that other posters shell out the extra $ and do it correctly. Serious.
Funny though, during this project, I spent extra $ on misc parts, restored the yellowed headlights to new, replaced 3 of the 5 differential seals that were leaking, and installed new Akebono brake pads. Whoever gets this car eventually, will be in luck.
Shocks
The price for the entry level Blausport kit was $425 shipped from Blauparts.com. http://www.blauparts.com/proddetail.asp?prod=MGR1016-A
This kit includes all the stuff I would consider beneficial except for new, rubber spring perches. (the rubber base that the springs sit on.) If I could have added just these new spring perches for ~$30-40, I would have done that.
Here is a link illustrating both the standard and the enhanced kit.
http://www.blausportshocksstruts.com....html#improved
Its interesting that the new rubber pieces and some of the bolts are genuine Audi parts. Blausport simply rubbed out the audi logo for legal reasons.
From my understanding, the shocks are specially valved KYB units. They boast a bright blue color and have the blausport logo engraved on the body. Plus, these units have larger, 50mm bodies that older A6s didn’t come with. Typically, KYB isnt a brand to recommend, but their quality seems to be on par with the sachs and bilstein OEM versions.
Shock Pics:
<a href="http://www.flickr.com/photos/45398191@N03/4917736412/" title="IMG_0275 by Flickraccount1868, on Flickr"><img src="http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4135/4917736412_84b14832a0_z.jpg" width="640" height="480" alt="IMG_0275" /></a>
<a href="http://www.flickr.com/photos/45398191@N03/4917134991/" title="IMG_0276 by Flickraccount1868, on Flickr"><img src="http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4095/4917134991_5bea0f4dce_z.jpg" width="640" height="480" alt="IMG_0276" /></a>
<a href="http://www.flickr.com/photos/45398191@N03/4917733784/" title="IMG_0277 by Flickraccount1868, on Flickr"><img src="http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4080/4917733784_3606dafc9a_z.jpg" width="640" height="480" alt="IMG_0277" /></a>
Shock review:
First observation is that these are NOT a firm shock. Blauparts calls them quality replacement shock not intended for S series cars or aftermarket springs, but I thought they would be stiffer. After 200k+ miles on my ford truck, I have went through 3 sets of HD bilsteins, and remembering how much stiffer the HDs were than the factory, I guess I expected something similar to that with these replacements on the audi. Nevertheless, they are an excellent replacement option at an exceptional cost. The Bilsteins would have been ~$600 without ANY of the replacement hardware found on the blausport kit.
Again, if you are planning on keeping the car, I would highly recommend the HD Bilsteins if on a budget or new springs and sport bilsteins on a fat wallet. I would love to drive an A6 2.7t with a proper bilstein coil-over setup.
Finally, a pic most of us Audi owners are all too familiar with: The car up on blocks. lol
<a href="http://www.flickr.com/photos/45398191@N03/4918084540/" title="IMG_0226 by Flickraccount1868, on Flickr"><img src="http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4114/4918084540_8d549137d9_b.jpg" width="768" height="1024" alt="IMG_0226" /></a>
09-09-2010, 07:30 AM
#19
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Brilliant post, very imformative!
My UK 2.4 A6 is desperatley needing what you have just done to yours, im on 150k miles with original shocks & springs and have been replacing control arms as they fail.
The only problem with this is that it never gives you back that new feeling, it just gets rid of an annoying clunk now and again.
Think i too will go for the control arm set and possibly coilovers soon, im pretty sure il notice the difference
Car is currently getting new engine and original clutch changed.
My UK 2.4 A6 is desperatley needing what you have just done to yours, im on 150k miles with original shocks & springs and have been replacing control arms as they fail.
The only problem with this is that it never gives you back that new feeling, it just gets rid of an annoying clunk now and again.
Think i too will go for the control arm set and possibly coilovers soon, im pretty sure il notice the difference
Car is currently getting new engine and original clutch changed.
