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Automobile article, (RS 6 vs M5 vs S-Type R vs E55 AMG), I would definitely get the RS 6...!!!

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Old 11-13-2002, 01:39 PM
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Default I think any of the top three cars are "the best".

I have a 2002 M5. Everything they said is true. Is it "the best"? No. Neither are the other two. (I don't put the jag in same league.) I would not be ashamed nor feel inferior owning any of the top three. I think you guys are far too sensitive. This competition is like finding consensus amoungst all men to agree on who "the best" looking woman on the planet is. There is not one, but MANY. So it is with cars. My biggest problem with the RS6 is that the chassis is dead on arrival. The platform is already replaced as we speak. As is my M5 and your A6.
Old 11-13-2002, 02:52 PM
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Default I guess that would leave the upcoming E55 as the 'best' since it has a new chassis

and the M5 won't have its new chassis for another 3 years or so...
Old 11-13-2002, 04:02 PM
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Default The Winning Formula isn't always about the raw numbers

I have to agree with Silver 2.7tt and mikef4.2nowM5 points on this one. Despite being an Audi owner and fan who would like to see the RS6 be the ultimate sedan, I appeciate the opinions of the magazine writers. Whereas the RS6 is pretty clearly an awesome car, it is not "the best thing since sliced bread".

The magazines would actually be doing us a disservice to crown the RS6 as champion just because it produces better numbers. If you want to buy a car because it is faster 0-60 or because it laps the Nurburg Ring the fastest, then be all means do so. However, the job of the magazine writer is to go beyond the numbers and try to inform us subjectively as best they can on how the car feels to drive. This is difficult to do, but I have to say that I am not surprised at all by the result. They like the M5 better. So what? These guys are enthusiasts just like us and they are giving us their preference. By the way, they did pick the S4 over the former M3 not that long ago. I think if the RS6 was clearly better all around, then they would have had no problems choosing it.

My A6 2.7 is faster than most of the BMWs that I have driven and it is certainly a better all-around car for me (considering where I live and how I usually drive). However, despite all its mods, it doesn't feel as much like a sports car as a similar performing BMW. My A6 is more of a highway cruiser than a track car. No matter what I do to it, it is not going to beat a ZO6, a Modena, or a GT2.

My guess is that the RS6, while improved, suffers from some of the same problems my A6 does. Certainly, these are not evident when blasting up the interstate or driving through a Nor'Easter. For me, the RS6 is clearly the better choice when considering only one car. I have to admit though that I wish my A6 offered better steering and road feel. I live with these issues because the car is quick on the highway and has no equal when it starts snowing. That said, it is not even close to as much fun to drive as my 88 Mustang GT was. That was a car that you could steer around offramps with the gas pedal. It had brakes that faded to zero after slowing from 140 to 80 one time, but it was a load of fun in its day, despite being a ****ty all-around car. I think part of what makes the M5 so good is that it is fun to drive and is a good all-around car. I am sure some additional mods would make my A6 faster than a M5. Unfortunately, it won't ever feel as much like a "sports car" as the M5. I think this is the same problem the RS6 has and explains why it isn't chosen as #1.

For those who prefer the experience of the current A6 platform over the current BMW 5 series, the RS6 is probably the better choice. Some people will simply enjoy the experience of the M5 more, despite the Audi's superior performance in numbers. The writers simply fall into the latter category. If I were forced to choose, I'd pick the RS6 despite its handicaps because I assume that a few mods will put it in the mid 500's for horsepower and its edge in numbers will become even more significant.

Then again, I would have trouble justifying a purchase of either, because they both seem so close to the end of their platform lifecycles.
Old 11-13-2002, 04:27 PM
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Default How about this: The M5 is more 'familiar', especially in the basic 5 body

which seems to qualify for many more test scenarios than the A6. So the testers are more familiar with the 5 and the M5, and perhaps, as someone here mentioned a while back, perhaps better 'schmoozed' by BMW. So they choose the M5 over the seemingly superior RS6. Better car or better marketing. Just because they're professional doesn't mean they aren't swayed by marketing and that old familiar feel...
Old 11-13-2002, 07:43 PM
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Default This sort of thing isn't new at all.

If you have been reading car reviews for any time at all you would see cars rated contrary to the test numbers all the time. The Corvette has often been compared to cars that it could beat in every objective test; accelleration, braking, cornering, top speed, but in the end they give the nod to a Porsche or BMW or something similar. The reasoning is always almost exactly what the reviewers said in this case.

As an engineer I am conflicted by this sort of review. On the one hand, what sense does it make to even run objective tests if you are not going to make them the basis for rating the cars. On the other hand I have driven enough cars to recognize that some cars really do "feel" better than others. In the end though a $45,000 ZO6 Corvette will beat an M5 or RS-6 in virtually every objective test, except interior space. So while you may surprise people with how fast your 4 door sedan is, you definitely won't have the best performing car on the road.

By the way, it shouldn't surprise us that the RS-6 is having trouble impressing the reviewers as much as some of it's competitors. The RS-6, and pretty much all Audis, have a real and basic handling disadvantage; they are extremely front heavy. 60% front 40% rear weight balance is way out there and it is almost impossible to compensate for that with any kind of suspension work. Audi needs to find a way to get the lead out of the quattro system. Not so much the total weight but specifically they need to figure out how to get some of the weight moved to the back of the car.
Old 11-14-2002, 04:57 PM
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Default The new A6 Quattro is supposed to have Torsen 3

The Torsen 3 center differential is supposed to give all versions of the A6 Quattro weight distribution similar to that of most RWD cars. Torsen 3 also reduces the weight of the Quattro system and allows for the front mounted engine and rear mounted gas tank to be mounted more towards the middle. Torsen 3 is also more space efficient than the center differential currently used with Quattro. All of this is supposed to substantially improve total performance and provide a much better balance. Hopefully, Torsen 3's reliability/dependability and durability is much better than that of the center differential currently used with Quattro.
Old 11-14-2002, 05:37 PM
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Default

What does my '0 2.7 have, Torsen 2?
Old 11-15-2002, 03:17 PM
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Default Excellent point

However, the new (C6) RS6 due out late decade will be a huge improvement over the C5 RS6 in many ways. First, like all other new (C6) A6s, the RS6 will weigh 400-500 pounds less than the C5. Second, all versions of the new A6 with Quattro will have Torsen 3 which will give the new A6 with Quattro front/rear weight distribution similar or identical to most RWD cars. Another enhancement is the tiptronic six speed automatic transmission with paddle shifters. The new tiptronic six speed automatic is supposed to be worlds better than the tiptronic five speed automatic in every conceivable way. The new RS6 will probably have a twin turbo version of the new S6's all new four cam 40V or 50V 5.5L V10 most likely producing an estimated 500 hp and an estimated 520-530 lbs/ft of torque. I'm sure dynamic ride control will remain standard. The new RS6 should also have the new A8's adjustable electronic sport air suspension as standard equipment. The C6 RS6 will need at least 500 hp and 520-530 lbs/ft of torque and both of these suspension systems to keep up with the E60 BMW M5, E63 BMW M6 and W211 Mercedes E55 AMG.
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