Conclusion to "Bald tires are better on dry roads" thread
07-22-2005, 03:12 AM
#41
Funny, I thought the original thread was "should I by new tires to drive on the street"
The next thread will be a "sudden LA rainstorm/hydroplane/crash thread."
The streets of LA are not a track. This may not be the rainy season, but that doesn't mean it won't rain. Worn tires have fatigued casings.
Buy nice tires.
The streets of LA are not a track. This may not be the rainy season, but that doesn't mean it won't rain. Worn tires have fatigued casings.
Buy nice tires.
07-22-2005, 04:20 AM
#43
AudiWorld Super User
Join Date: Apr 2002
Posts: 4,681
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Tell you what...........
drive your baldies down to the bars or even below -- just tell us your usual daily routine so that we can stay out of your way when your car hits a patch of oil/grease/water or a sharp'ish rock or errant beer bottle blows out your tire (I assume they have rocks and beer bottles in CA).
But you're right-you've convinced us all that you are right - that was the object of this thread, wasn't it - even if you pervert Gary's thread to do it....
But you're right-you've convinced us all that you are right - that was the object of this thread, wasn't it - even if you pervert Gary's thread to do it....
07-22-2005, 05:58 AM
#46
Tires are shaved to reduce heat building up in them. Not to improve traction.
At least that's true with race tires. I've never heard of anyone shaving a street tire.
I'm guessing (pretty educated) here that the differnce in grip is not huge. That, and the risk you put yourself at when driving the car in the rain would make me believe it's definitely not worth the risk. I've hyrdoplaned massively on half worn tires, much less down to the wear bars.
If you want more grip, but a set of high performance summer tires and a second set of dedicated tires for winter. You'll be much happier and stay out of the ditches year round.
I'm guessing (pretty educated) here that the differnce in grip is not huge. That, and the risk you put yourself at when driving the car in the rain would make me believe it's definitely not worth the risk. I've hyrdoplaned massively on half worn tires, much less down to the wear bars.
If you want more grip, but a set of high performance summer tires and a second set of dedicated tires for winter. You'll be much happier and stay out of the ditches year round.
07-22-2005, 09:23 AM
#48
AudiWorld Senior Member
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 683
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
After observing your arguements in these threads . .
I can understand where you're coming from but I think your approach to expressing it is what is garnering the majority of the negative responses.
The issues of the status of your tire treads and the traction of slicks (a term associated with non-treaded racing tires) are being mixed together, mostly by your own design.
You've made reference to racing slicks in comparison to bald street tires to try to make your point about traction being improved with reduced tread height but because many car enthusiasts have a general idea of how much more traction a slick has over a bald street tire you're getting shot down.
Another observation I have is that you shouldn't ask an "expert" for advice on your tire wear by telling him you have some tread left and then close the message with "I thought slicks had the best traction on dry pavement because they have the most rubber surface area on the road." That's misleading, and you therefore got the exact response you were looking for to get your warm and fuzzy feeling about keeping aged tires. Whether you were guiding Gary for a genuine response about keeping your tires or for ammunition for this debate only you know.
Looking back at that thread in the tires and wheels forum it's obvious that Gary answered (in his mind) the question about racing slicks separately from the issue of your tire wear. He does after all try to caution you about the risks of predicting weather etc. Still, what you get out of what you read is your own business so draw your own conclusions.
As many of us have tried to tell you, you can't equate a bald street tire (hard compound for longevity) with a racing slick (hard compound for improved traction) though you seem to try to do so by taking information out of context.
Maybe its just the way you're presenting the information. I don't think you'll get any argument from us if you said that a tire of a particular compound would yield better traction on smooth, clean pavement if it had NO tread vs. being treaded. Taking the statement further though by trying to equate a bald street tire with a racing slick goes too far.
Personally I've got a few issues with low tread STREET tires (low because of wear, not because they are new tires that have been shaved as is the case with racing rain tires):
1. Typically a street tire that is low on tread is old in age and the rubber is hardened. I don't know what effect that age has on traction but my gutt feeling is that traction of the hardened tire is reduced in comparison to a new tire shaved to the same low tread depth.
2. Treads on street tires are there for more than just rain. Racing is done in controlled environments. Tracks are cleaned and races held in dry weather (unless rain tires are used). I would think that a bald street tire is going to give less traction on a dirty road filled with sand or gravel. Here in Honolulu our roads suck, with potholes everywhere and gravel from those potholes everywhere as well. I'd probably be more inclined to replace a tire before it hits the wear bars here than someone who's local streets are in better condition.
3. Even if you only stick to the wet/dry traction debate, there are more potential sources of moisture than just rain when it comes to driving on the street. Name as many as you want; coolant spills, broken water pipes, long running roadside sprinklers etc. Any of these sources of moisture in an unfortunate location can spell disaster for an unsuspecting driver whose tires are incapable of coping with the moisture. I know this only too well having been caught off guard several times (not racing) on my motorcycle. The unpredictability of street driving is what causes many of us to err on the side of caution when it comes to replacing tires early.
The issues of the status of your tire treads and the traction of slicks (a term associated with non-treaded racing tires) are being mixed together, mostly by your own design.
You've made reference to racing slicks in comparison to bald street tires to try to make your point about traction being improved with reduced tread height but because many car enthusiasts have a general idea of how much more traction a slick has over a bald street tire you're getting shot down.
Another observation I have is that you shouldn't ask an "expert" for advice on your tire wear by telling him you have some tread left and then close the message with "I thought slicks had the best traction on dry pavement because they have the most rubber surface area on the road." That's misleading, and you therefore got the exact response you were looking for to get your warm and fuzzy feeling about keeping aged tires. Whether you were guiding Gary for a genuine response about keeping your tires or for ammunition for this debate only you know.
Looking back at that thread in the tires and wheels forum it's obvious that Gary answered (in his mind) the question about racing slicks separately from the issue of your tire wear. He does after all try to caution you about the risks of predicting weather etc. Still, what you get out of what you read is your own business so draw your own conclusions.
As many of us have tried to tell you, you can't equate a bald street tire (hard compound for longevity) with a racing slick (hard compound for improved traction) though you seem to try to do so by taking information out of context.
Maybe its just the way you're presenting the information. I don't think you'll get any argument from us if you said that a tire of a particular compound would yield better traction on smooth, clean pavement if it had NO tread vs. being treaded. Taking the statement further though by trying to equate a bald street tire with a racing slick goes too far.
Personally I've got a few issues with low tread STREET tires (low because of wear, not because they are new tires that have been shaved as is the case with racing rain tires):
1. Typically a street tire that is low on tread is old in age and the rubber is hardened. I don't know what effect that age has on traction but my gutt feeling is that traction of the hardened tire is reduced in comparison to a new tire shaved to the same low tread depth.
2. Treads on street tires are there for more than just rain. Racing is done in controlled environments. Tracks are cleaned and races held in dry weather (unless rain tires are used). I would think that a bald street tire is going to give less traction on a dirty road filled with sand or gravel. Here in Honolulu our roads suck, with potholes everywhere and gravel from those potholes everywhere as well. I'd probably be more inclined to replace a tire before it hits the wear bars here than someone who's local streets are in better condition.
3. Even if you only stick to the wet/dry traction debate, there are more potential sources of moisture than just rain when it comes to driving on the street. Name as many as you want; coolant spills, broken water pipes, long running roadside sprinklers etc. Any of these sources of moisture in an unfortunate location can spell disaster for an unsuspecting driver whose tires are incapable of coping with the moisture. I know this only too well having been caught off guard several times (not racing) on my motorcycle. The unpredictability of street driving is what causes many of us to err on the side of caution when it comes to replacing tires early.