Aries

RUN the White House, and RUN the After Life, among many others... That's why they call me the Green Giant!

<img src="http://www.greengiant.com/images/history/tr_stand.jpg">

Conehead, will your foolish emotions, ludicrous claims and unsubstantiated opinions never never never end? If you really know people who run the Audi studio, why don't you do this forum a favor and get us pictures of the next A6 sedan and Avant.

Rookie, stop spinning stories about your welcome, because you sure weren't asking for a welcome. Go back to your dumb initial post and meditate on it. You deserved what you got for your arrogance and provocation. By now, everyone is aware of your unsubstantiated opinions, arrogant "know it all" attitudes and incredulous claims.

As for your claims, are you sure you didn't work in a Kodak Studio or Tonka Studio also? Any Conehead can fabricate what you say with some research on the Internet or an a library. Nothing you have said so far could not also have come from 2Tonic, Potomac or Finman, or a few hundred other people on this forum. If there was any shred of intelligence in what you wrote, even if you had put it in your crass and immature way, I would have been interested. Hey, unlike you, I give German "auto rags" (what arrogance that you call them "rags"!) a chance. But you try too hard to be the "final word".

I am certain you are a figment of an existing poster's imagination, somone's alter ego trying in vain to run me off the forum. But failing miserably. But let me indulge your fantasy and incredulous claims that you are what you claim to be.

It is designers and product developers with over-inflated egos and "know-it-all attitudes" like yours that is the reason the American auto industry is not in better shape. People like you think they are God's gift to the world, and design products that they try to shove down the throats of customers. "Take it or leave it" and "I know what's best, you don't" attitudes belong to the 1970s. Designers with attitudes like yours are the reason new products fail 45% of the time.

I hope smart Auto executives (what you snidely refer to as "Suits") are dumping staff with attitudes like yours. Former VW Chairman Ferdinand Piech was so disappointed with what his German Studios had done on the next A6 in 2001 that he stopped their work and re-assigned the job to his Spanish studios.

Attitudes like yours are sad to read. You need to control your oversized EGO and incontinent emotions, listen more to what others say, as well as control your massive "Pikes Peak" mouth. Then maybe you will be better able to hear, perceive and understand customer requirements that should drive design work.

As I said, "Self Praise is NOOOO Praise." As far as I am concerned, your big shot opinions and incredulous claims are just another set of "KNOW it all" attitudes. I could line up 1,000 real auto designers from around the world, and get different responses from each. What makes yours right? I doubt other designers will have your arrogant attitude and emotional issues. Frankly, I know of no successful person who shows such a lack of maturity and emotional intelligence as you have consistently exhibited.

Let me teach you a lesson about how to rattle someone off a forum. Number 1 rule is to keep you incontinent emotions in check. You look foolish when your emotions and arrogance spew all over the place. You are boring and have serious ego issues, and certainly don't have what it takes to run me off this forum. Posters like you who regularly spew unsubstantiated, "know it all" opinions like yours would love to have me disappear. But that will not happen. What I bring to the forum is new information, facts and viewpoints that people like you feel threatened by because you can't impress others with your unsubstantiated opinions and spins. You can take it or leave it.

Now go take your meds, and stop whining.

Yawwwwwwwwn...<ul><li><a href="https://forums.audiworld.com/a6/msgs/217267.p

Turbine Driven

You're a modeler, and not a designer. While I don't mean any disrespect, you are misleading. From what you describe I think you're a class "1" or "A" surfacer. That's not to say interpreting 2D into 3D is any easy task. The reason why you don't use Studio Paint/AW is because it's a NURBS program while UG or Solid Works is solid based.

I was once told that every skilled draftsman should be able to lay down TEN INDIVIDUAL lines in gold or aluminum WITHIN a ONE millimeter gap. Now...as Class 1 (or A) modelers are actually responsible for supplying CAD data that can be used to cut tooling from!!! There are thousands of people doing this for a living, HOWEVER...there are only a FEW hundred who have achieved expert status at it...the rest are hacks and should be parking cars not "designing" them!

Alias does not like small fillets...it CANNOT produce Class 1 surface...it is a wonderful rendering tool and in the right hands can facilitate advanced program support very well.
SDRC is the world's most expensive data collector and is CRAP as a design tool. It is not too bad at solid modeling but absolutely SUCKS as a surface tool! (NO Class 1)

Class 1 or A do surfacers studio and program support on ICEM/Surf...it is absolutely the greatest surface tool on the planet, so I'm told.

Anyways....I know this because I'm studying to become a designer. I will attend Art Center this summer at the ripe age of 20.

Aries

a pathetic acting job and a fraud, which I realized from the start when you first appeared as a Newbie on this forum trying too hard to harass me for a rookie. You did exactly what I expected you to do, even before you did it.

It is interesting that Potomac and Finman in posts above did not pick up on your scam immediately. Maybe there is some value to my reading "auto rags" from Europe after all.

Whatever you have been paid to harrass me is way too much. You can't even get your facts right to create an effective illusion, or delusion. Next time, try not to look so foolish and emotional. And stop being full of yourself -- I dont't harbor resentment towards you, I am just sad for you. I hope you take failure well.

The one good thing that came out of this: 20 year old Turbine Driven has exhibited the competence and disposition to make it as a real auto designer, if that is what he wants.

<img src="http://www.greengiant.com/images/history/tr_grstg.jpg">

Turbine Driven

But I turn 20 in March; the summer term starts in May, so I'll be 20 then.

Art Center has some really great alumni; probably the best in the industry. The TT, Enzo, Boxster, S Class, even the infamous Chris Bangle were all Art Center students.

I really do want to become an automotive designer. I studied under senior designers for Oakley, Porsche and even the design manager from Mitsubishi. It's everything you think it is and more.

If anybody is actually interested in car design I recommend you check out www.cardesignnews.com if anybody wants more info about Art Center check out www.artcenter.edu .

You never know who you'll meet in these forums. I meet John Offer at www.vwvortex.com . He's the designer responsible for the Dodge M80 and the interior for the upcoming 300N.

Aries

limits on your output. In the worst case scenario, design one set for them (to get thru the politics) and another set for your own creative excellence and learning. It is dissapointing that so few of the best designs get chosen because of political and other wrong reasons, and after a while designers become jaded and start creating what they think their bosses want. Conventional wisdom should never box you in, it's only one way of thinking and there are usually multiple alternatives to any solution.

I hope you will still be on this forum when you have designed your first car (or a part of it)! You're obviously an enthusiastic learner who has taken the initiative to learn what you love. Have fun.

egghead_S6

...no. With all due respect, I know why I dont use Studio Paint. Alias Wavefront AutoStudio uses Non Uniform Rational B-Spline(NURBS) math to aproximate its surfaces. Studio Paint is not a sufacing tool. It is a paint program with many enhancements giving it the abiliy to very easily apply marker-like rendering effects on the screen instead of on paper. You will learn all of this at Art Center when you begin.

To clear a few other misconceptions up for you. Modellers make physical models, which I have not done much of scince art school. I am a studio engineer and NC programmer. This is not to say that I am not also a designer; I am responsible for resurfacing the stylists Alias surface models.
These models do not even approach class A standards for patch continuity. Also, the person who works from the rendering and turns it into a 3D model is almost always the clay modeller. They make a handful of 1/8 scale clays from different renderings, maybe a couple 1/4 scale clays of the two or three best, and finally a full scale clay that gets scanned. Then a guy like me gets the scan data and surfaces the car staying as close to scan as possible while maintaining the intent of the clay modeller's and the stylists design.

As far as most class A surfacers being hacks; I beg to differ. Like with anything, there are good ones and bad ones, however anyone who is capable of producing a class A result as per the studios specifications within a reasonable time frame is far from a hack, let me assure you. The standards by which class A surfaces are held to are absolutely the highest of any suface made. So with class A guys its more like "the good ones and the really good ones". Typically, Class A surfaces must not have any more than .013 degrees angle break between patches. The only way to achieve these results is with what is called G3 continuity or "curvature continuity" between patches. This is incredibly difficult to do accross the entire surface boundary; and this is only part of the process by which these surfaces are judged. Reflect analysis is the final qualification for production surface and believe me, it is not easy to get those reflects to fall exactly how they should while still holdind correct continuity between all patches.

Unigraphics is a world class surfacing tool that is used for class A surface development in automotive studios worldwide. It runs on a Parasolids kernel. The surfaces in UG are sheet solids with no volume. They can be linked to one another parametrically if you have the ShapeStudio bundle. SolidWorks cannot produce a surface of any decent quality. Ive used them all. Catia V4 is by far the most widely used class A tool in automotive design. UG comes in second. Behind them are ICEM and SDRC's IDEAS. Way behind them. ICEM is a perfectly good Class A tool, however it's interface is extremly clunky and as a result only a handful of studios have stuck with it; AUDI AG being one of them although they still use Catia for production surface. ICEM's strength is in the way you can use it to surface directly from point cloud data. SDRC IDEAS is being incorperated into the next version of UG, mainly because of its world class analysis tools. EDS, the company that owns UG, just bought SDRC.

There is no "class 1" surface. Only Class A, which means any show surface on the car. I think you might be thinking of G1 Continuity(point continuity) Typically, the class A designation is reserved for exterior body panels as these body panels have to be completely free from inflections. There are also class B sufaces; usually interior body panels whos suface quality is not as fiercley scrutinized, mainly because there is usually an orange peel texture applied to these panels and reflects do not show up as much.

So now you know. I would hate to think that you are running off to Art Center with bad info. Dont believe everything a styling designer tells you about CADCAM; most of them only know about Alias.

Class A surfacing is the only dicipline in automotive design that cannot be taught in a classroom. Youu have to be brought up through the ranks of the studios by those who know and learn it over YEARS of doing actual studio work. This is how it is done. Please refrain from calling class A surfacers hacks; without us we wouldnt be able to produce the car so very close to the clay modellers intent.

The thing is, there is so much more that goes on inside the studios that I simply couldnt begin to tell you all the ways CADCAM is used. The examples I gave hold true for most production exersises. Concept vehicle have a different set of requirements and follow a much less rigid work flow.

Good luck in Pasedena and let me know if I can help out with inside info.

-egghead

egghead_S6

...From the way you talk to your idol(Turbine Driven)you would think that you used to be or still are involved in design. But you're not; and you 're buddy seems to be just getting his feet wet. He seems like a well intentioned guy but trust me, he has a long way to go before he can go heads up with someone like me regarding studio practices, computer aided design or manufacturing. Ive been doing this stuff for about ten years(after college). If you look at the reply I made to help TurbineDriven get his facts in order you will notice that while his knowledge is cursory, mine is really quite detailed regarding all things studio related. The fact you would believe that this guy is going to be a designer on the one hand but cannot accept that I actually am a designer is puzzling to me. You see, I dont care one way or the other whether or not the likes of you believes me as I am in the studio right now. I cant help but think that the only reason you are lashing out at me and trying to declare me a fraud is because I dont care about what you think Audi might do in the future and I said somthing about it. Or perhaps you just like to harrass "newbies". Either way, if anyone on this board takes the time to read through this thread, they will see what truth is contained within. Now youre giving career advice to your buddy who is just entering design school; why? How would you know what he should do or what any other designer has gone through during thier careers?

Turbine Driven: DO NOT LISTEN TO THIS GEEK; HE JUST WANTS TO SEEM INTELLIGENT. HE WISHES HE HAD A CHANCE IN HELL OF GETTING A STUDIO JOB AND HE IS OBVIOUSLY DRIVING HIMSELF INSANE FROM TRYING TO MATCH WITS WITH THE EGGHEAD.

LMGotts

Hey Finman, you delete this post and you'll remove all the absurdities that have followed in it!

Aldous

"egghead_S6", basically I think you've missed the point a little of an 'enthusiast' forum. Sure, there's helpful exchanges of information and technical tips about maintaining the cars we are actually driving today... but, the speculation and curiosity about what may be coming our way in the future, is just as much a part of what this forum's about ...and part of that kind of discussion involves unlearned and often false speculation. There are going to be dry periods when Any mention of Audi in a periodical gets air time here, and right now (with the Detroit Auto Show going on) talk of concept cars and past (maybe dead) endeavors are 'hot news'. Some here are more savvy sudo-'insiders', but most are just Audi owners who like their cars ...but all have a voice, and should be respected as members of our little community. Maybe you're just a little jaded from ten years in the biz, and feel you have a bit more 'finger on the pulse', but 'No One' in this forum knows all. As You ought to know, the car biz thrives on closely guarded secrets juxtapose "leaked" tidbits and pure publicity mongering . So, yes "egghead", you're a newbie here, with a little bit to learn about this environment, but you're interest and comments seem sincere, and I for one welcome you to the community and hope you continue to contribute.

"Aries", I don't know whether you've just woken up on the wrong side of the bed (Every Day This Week) or what; but I find your combativeness through this whole thread (and the previous one) wholly uncalled for and inappropriate. Lighten up a little, you're making yourself look foolish. As a more senior member of the forum, you should be leading by example. This forum doesn't have cute little icons by everyone's names to immediately let us know how many threads they've penned (someone's very first post commands just as much prominence as their thousandth), but that doesn't mean that we don't expect more of those who've been here longer ...particularly when they're intentionally pressing that issue to try and lend credence to their own views over another's.

My 2 cents,
Aldous

HighwayStar

You wrong Aldous. eggheds comments not seem sincere. vulgar, smart ***, personal attacks