Singletrack

We're getting away from the original argument, but oh well, who cares...

"The only fair way to compare is with the same driver. In this case, the Mustang is ahead of the Audi by about four car lengths (minimum) over a quarter mile, and is jogging away. The Camabird is as much as ten car lengths ahead, and is *running* away."

He brought up the difference in drivers, not me.

"Yeah, I think they're crap, too. Service? Let's not go there. (Pot calling the kettle black, etc.) Looks? Eye of the beholder. I really don't like the Firebird, like the Camaro SS, and am ambivalent about the Mustang GT (but like the Cobra). FWIW, I don't care too much for the 2.8 and 2.7T A6s since my bride got her 4.2."

My service is absolutely excellent (Sewickley Car Store). Yeah opinions about looks are worthless, eye of the beholder like you said.

"Handling? BRAAAP! You're kidding!"

Abosulutely not, at least not on the back country twisties I drive on. I'll take the pepsi challenge against any of the above mentioned cars any day of the week. Of course, I consider myself a better driver than most : )

"As a proof point, let me mention how competitive the Camabirds are in SCCA stock class racing, against such examples as the Honda S2000 and other hard-running cars. "

SCCA stock class allows some level of modifications doesn't it?

"You think your 2.7T is even close? Forget it. In that company, you'd use it to go get parts. "

Like I said, bring on the competition. I'm sure the SS could pick a track to beat me on. But I guarentee you that I could pick a road course that would have it spinning out all over the place.

"It's a couch. Yeah, a nice, comfortable couch, to be sure. :-)"

If you think your wife's 4.2 handles like a couch, you don't know how to drive it. I could give you a free lesson sometime...keep it in mind.

-st

Augie

Quoted from previous:
"Handling? BRAAAP! You're kidding!"

"Abosulutely not, at least not on the back country twisties I drive on. I'll take the pepsi
challenge against any of the above mentioned cars any day of the week. Of course, I
consider myself a better driver than most : )"

I was careful to postulate "same driver". That would be you, in this case. You'd be stunned by how much faster the Camabird is.

Quoted from previous:
"As a proof point, let me mention how competitive the Camabirds are in SCCA stock class
racing, against such examples as the Honda S2000 and other hard-running cars. "

"SCCA stock class allows some level of modifications doesn't it?"

Yes, minor, and mostly for safety. Similar levels of modification for all cars. Your point?

You said:
"Like I said, bring on the competition. I'm sure the SS could pick a track to beat me on. But I
guarentee you that I could pick a road course that would have it spinning out all over the
place."

Remember, *you're* the competition. There isn't a track in the country where you could post a time even *near* what you could do in a Camabird. That includes autocross tracks, where they are also really competitive on a national level.

You said:
"If you think your wife's 4.2 handles like a couch, you don't know how to drive it."

You could be right, but I can tell you I've messed about with it a little (even got it to rotate properly a couple of times - with quite a bit of effort), and it's a couch. It's no worse than my son's A6 2.7T 6-speed, but it's still a couch. Compared to the cars I've mentioned (including the Camabirds), these cars really are parts getters. Don't get me wrong. I really like our 4.2, but it's emphatically out of its element when being pushed really hard - even on the street.

You said:
"I could give you a free lesson sometime...keep it in mind."

You may indeed be able to teach me a thing or two, but let me ask you about your level of experience. How much track time have you had? In how many cars? At how many tracks?

I am pitifully far from being invited to an F1 tryout, but I have bounced around some tracks up here in the northeast (Lime Rock, NHIS, Mont Tremblant) for a few years and somewhere close to 3000 miles in three different street cars, and I have learned *some* things about how it's done.

If you have track experience, tell me, and we can confer on some of the finer (or coarser) points. If you don't then don't even bother, because (without disrespect) you simply can't begin to get any real level of competence that even one day of track time might give you.

Singletrack

This wasn't even the original argument anyway.

buuut...

"If you have track experience, tell me, and we can confer on some of the finer (or coarser) points. If you don't then don't even bother, because (without disrespect) you simply can't begin to get any real level of competence that even one day of track time might give you."

This statement is so arrogant (I like the without disrespect part) that it isn't even worth a response. The only thing I will say is this, if I can't debate the handling characteristics of a certain car then wtf is this board for? Sorry I don't have any half-*** autocross experience like you. I suppose that means I've never pushed a car on the road, in a parking lot, on a wet surface, in the snow, on a back road that only I was driving, etc.

later couchrider,

-st

Michael Kwok

but his car has gotta be a 10-11 second car. supposed to be sueprcharged/turbocharged and NOS'ed.

He trows a bit and always use to finds people. In the few times that I've seen him, he's never even come close to losing......Ferrari's/Porsches are left in the dust. Launches are controlled, Timing is incredible, it's a thing of beauty....and the colour is ugly....

Mike

Augie

1) Go take a Camaro SS for a test drive. Yeah, they're crap, but you'll be stunned by the performance - meaning acceleration, braking and cornering. You'll see just how much a couch your 2.7T is - by comparison, at least. Granted, the A6 2.7T and 4.2 variants work well as semi-sporty sedans, but they are not in this league.

2) Sign up for and do a couple of Audi club driving schools. You will learn a *ton*, and have as much fun in a car as you can have with your clothes on. Even better, you'll discover that what you've learned translates back to even casual street driving. What you interpret as arrogance on my part may be reasonably well founded, but trust me, you'll find it's based on pure fact. You simply *cannot* learn on the street what even a light amount of track time will teach you. Spirited (even *very* spirited) street driving simply doesn't count. Really.

3?) Assuming you've just sneered at the first two, go ask some friends/acquaintances about driving schools and what they teach you. They will *all* say pretty much what I'm saying.

Just do it. You'll be really glad you did.

Re your autocross reference: I personally haven't done one, but people tell me it's a real help in working out low-speed chassis dynamics, and a help in preparing for higher speed track work.

Singletrack

1) No thanks, I've driven faster, better handling cars so I don't think the SS is going to wow me. I'm sure it will accelerate better than my a6, but I can guarentee you I wouldn't like the handling. I don't have to prove the handling on this platform, the freaking S4 won the GT and the A6 has a longer wheel base which allows for better handling anyway. The fact that the S4s can beat Vipers, Corvettes, Mustangs, Porsches, M3's, etc. etc. is plenty good for me.

2) I've been planning to do a quattro driving event and maybe even go to driving school for quite a while. I missed the event at Nazareth and I don't have the time/money for the driving school. I've always thought that they're excellent tools for learning how to drive your car, I never questioned that.

3) No idea where you got the notion that I would #1 not want to go to driving school and/or #2 sneer at your comments about it.

I don't think I'll ever compete in any kind of organized racing, at least not with my A6. It's too expensive and it really isn't what the car was designed for anyway. It's a couch right?

-st