2.7Lturbo

Because if you follow the procedure correctly you shouldn't need to adjust the tensioner

slowguy

I didn't adjust anything - I used the tool (as per the instructions) to relieve some pressure off the chain connecting the two cams. That allowed me about a half inche of play to remove the old cam tensioner gasket and reinstall the new one - without ever remove the cam caps or the cams. Does that count as "adjustment"?

2.7Lturbo

so if you followed the instructions i dont understand what your worried about?

besides it is clearly stated that you do not need to remove the cams on several of the write ups on this site.

slowguy

I am worried because of the variance in the marks I made after I released the tension on the chain. As for removing the cams - I started that procedure because I got the kit with the cam seals. From what I've read, the cams HAVE to be removed to do this. I opted to leave that part of the procedure out because of the possible problem I may have with the timing. I started out just needing to change the valve cover gaskets because I found oil in the plug holes.

Now, I think I may have to get a cam lock bar and the pin to lock the crank just because if there IS a timing problem, the ramifications will cost a whole lot more than renting the kit from blauparts and purchasing the accompanying timing belt kit (even though the belt and associated parts appear to be in fine shape.

I have the front of the car completely tore apart, I might as well go all out...right?

2.7Lturbo

yes, you might as well change the timing belt... but you do NOT have to remove the cams to change the gasket on the tensioner....

slowguy

I know this...I said that. You DO have to remove the cams to replace the CAM SEALS...there are four of them at the ends of each cam. SO....I opted to NOT do that as I was nervous about removing the cams and messing up the timing. I did, however, tightened the tensioner with the tool and remove the belt from the sprocket. Therefore, I will check the timing with the cam lock bar but my only concern was the difference BETWEEN the exhaust cam and intake cam...the intake is now an eigth inch off from the mark I made as a reference...the only thing I can think would cause this is the tension placed on the tensioner.

I want to know; 1. if that is normal, 2. is there an adjustment procedure for the tensioner and/or 3. will the car sense and adjust the timing automatically?

divil

Yes (probably), no and yes

I say probably because I can't tell how "off" your timing looks but it's possible for it to be slightly different after you've compressed the tensioner.

There is no adjustment needed for the chain tensioner. Correct timing of the chain is normally gauged by counting the chain link rollers between the timing marks on the cam sprockets (I am talking about the sprockets that the chain uses of course, not the timing belt sprockets). No need to draw your own marks for this. The marks in question are square notches in the sprocket that line up roughly with the arrows on the cam caps - but trust the number of chain links between the notches, not the arrows, if there is any difference.

You will have to do a few searches because there are slightly different ways that people count them, basically you should have 15 or 15 1/2 rollers between the timing marks on the driver's side, and 16 on the passenger side. The Beltley manual has this wrong afaik. If you have the correct number of rollers between the timing marks, then you are good to reassemble and fire it up. I cannot gaurantee that 1 tooth off will not damage anything, but I seriously doubt it - the engine just won't run right and will log misfire codes.

More than likely a small (less than 1 tooth) change in intake cam timing is the result of you compressing the tensioner with the tool - the first time you fire it up, it'll rattle like crazy as the engine tensioner fixes itself, but the noise should quickly disappear. If you never allowed the chain to move off the teeth then there is no way your chain timing can be off. If you did allow that to happen, a difference of 1 tooth should be unmistakable - you will not count the correct number of rollers no matter how you look at it.

Nope, negatory You do NOT have to remove the cams to replace the seals, in fact it won't even make it any easier. The cam chain tensioner and half moon seal on the passenger side are the only things that get easier by removing the cams, and even then it's not necessary, and the extra easyness is cancelled out by the extra hassle of removing the cams and counting the chain links when reinstalling! Don't bother removing the cams unless you are very comfortable with setting the chain timing.

slowguy

Thank you! Your reply says it all - exactly what I was looking for. Most of what you replied, I assumed but wanted to hear someone else say it. As for the cam seals, I looked all over but never found a write-up on how to replace them without removing the cams. As for now, I've only removed the passenger side cover and replaced the cover gasket. I got nervous about the timing issue and stuck it all back together. Oh yeah, I was also able to squeeze the tensioner metal gasket below the tensioner and half moon seal without removing the cams.

Problem now is it's installed, torqued, and siliconed in place. If I remove the cover again should I buy another gasket? Also, would you recommend this; removing the cover a second time and replacing the cam seals that I have them?

My bigest fear is removing that crank pulley. If everything is top dead center and I remove the crank pulley, will the valves stay put and not rotate anything once the cams are moved to get to the cam seals?

divil

I believe you have to use a new gasket if you re-open it. If it was me, I would wait and see if it leaks. If not, leave it until it does start to leak, or until you can't live with the leaks. You can buy new valve cover gaskets for about $20 each so it's up to you.

Not sure what you mean here. I suppose the most important thing to say about this is that you should not have to move the cams at all to change the seals. You have to remove the crank pulley so that you can remove the timing belt, so that you can remove the cam sprockets. But with the factory procedure, using the crank locking pin and cam locking bar, it's foolproof. When the cam locking bar is removed, the cam shafts may rotate to allow the valves to close, but no harm will be done. When you're reassembling you just use the locking bar to rotate them back into place. You are just putting the valves back to the position they were in when you started - perfectly safe AS LONG AS THE CRANK HAS BEEN LOCKED WITH THE SPECIAL PIN THE WHOLE TIME.

Anyway, to replace the cam seals & plugs you have to remove the end caps and the cam position sensors. Once you do that, how you remove the seals will be very obvious - you just slide them off. The main cam bearing caps will keep cams down - you never have to touch these bearing caps - just get the torque right when installing the end caps and you have nothing to worry about. Pay careful attention to how the position sensor goes together - it is keyed but you could install it the wrong way. Do the passenger side first since it's at the front and you can see better.

slowguy

i know I can be pretty confusing - I am confusing myself. Most of the terminology is new to me so I sometimes mix up what I'm saying. I meant to say; it makes me nervous to remove the cam sprockets that are driven by the timing belt. From what I can tell, they are pressed on a tapered camshaft end and once pulled can spin freely on the end of the camshaft. If that's the case, and the cams move once detached from the timing belt, how to you properly set the cam sprocket to its original position on the cam shaft? I know that once the sprocket is tightened on the shaft you can use the cam locking tool but that won't help you match the proper location for the cam sprocket to the cam shaft.

I apologize for what probably seems like a bunch of dumb questions, but after what I went through earlier, I want to anticipate as much as possible so there are no surprises. Much of the information I've gathered (on here and the bentley manual) is great but at the same time, not always very detailed.