Let's talk water/meth injection
11-14-2007, 08:12 AM
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Let's talk water/meth injection
I'm starting to seriously consider running H20/Meth injection because it would allow me to utilize my REVO SPS3 controller more effectively (i.e. more boost, timing, etc) while still using 92 octane pump gas. I'm read most of the info posted on the various forums (mostly S4 owners) who seem to like the Snows Performance Stage 2 kit. Auqamist is really nice but expensive and requires splicing into the ECU harness....no thanks. Devils Own kit is also nice but doesn't seem to be of the quality that Snow's Performance offers.
So, are there any A6 2.7T owners one this site running H20 injection? If so, what brand did you go with? Tank location? Where did you install the injection nozzles?
So, are there any A6 2.7T owners one this site running H20 injection? If so, what brand did you go with? Tank location? Where did you install the injection nozzles?
11-14-2007, 08:24 AM
#3
If you've got control of your injectors and they are capable of 20+% more....
...and the fuel pump is capable of delivering similarly, try E-85. Typically, same price as unleaded (or less) and 100+ octane. The added fuel volume is a charge cooling bonus. I've been running it in my supercharged non-Audi without issue the past 2 summers (I don't drive it in the winter).
11-14-2007, 08:29 AM
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Good write-up in the Tech section (link inside) on water injection on a stage 3 car.......
....might have better luck asking in the B5 S4 forum.
Personally I think it will yield relatively little on K03s, but I suppose if you're trying to wring out every last little bit of power from a stage 2/2+ setup it might be interesting. Should probably be saving the money for K04s instead!<ul><li><a href="https://www.audiworld.com/tech/eng80a.shtml">https://www.audiworld.com/tech/eng80a.shtml</a</li></ul>
Personally I think it will yield relatively little on K03s, but I suppose if you're trying to wring out every last little bit of power from a stage 2/2+ setup it might be interesting. Should probably be saving the money for K04s instead!<ul><li><a href="https://www.audiworld.com/tech/eng80a.shtml">https://www.audiworld.com/tech/eng80a.shtml</a</li></ul>
11-15-2007, 04:35 AM
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I've been playing around w/ the meth for a bit now.
Actually more just H20. I started w/ the Aquamist and I am now using an Autospeed Intelligent intercooling computer. They sell it as an Intercooler mister System (I just bought the circuit board and the peices I needed seperate) however the computer is capable of performing both injection & misting at the same time. The autospeed system is basically the skin and bones version of the top shelf, wicked expensive auquamist system. It doesn't just spray at WOT or peak boost. The system acually monitors request and AIT's so it sprays before the temps even think about rising. That way your keeping cool instead of cooling the heat. If that makes sense?
Personally I wouldn't push K03's that hard. But then agian I've smoked my share of K03's. I don't know if you would get enough of a hp return for your investment w/ this on 3's. But at least you'll have it ready for the K04's or the GT's.
I have 6mm nozzles in the output pipe of the intercoolers. I don't run a bi-pipe but that would definatly be the best location. I used my washer tank since I'm really being conservative on weight. Also don't let it freeze in the winter.
Personally I wouldn't push K03's that hard. But then agian I've smoked my share of K03's. I don't know if you would get enough of a hp return for your investment w/ this on 3's. But at least you'll have it ready for the K04's or the GT's.
I have 6mm nozzles in the output pipe of the intercoolers. I don't run a bi-pipe but that would definatly be the best location. I used my washer tank since I'm really being conservative on weight. Also don't let it freeze in the winter.
11-15-2007, 05:24 AM
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Anything negative about it so far?
I've talked to a few people who also like E-85. I can't find it around me, but I haven't been looking to hard. I didn't realize it was cheap.
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11-15-2007, 07:07 AM
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Can you post some pictures of your setup?
I had a friend who had the top end Aquamist setup on a supercharged 2.0L Mk3 Jetta. He was running the Neuspeed blower with a undersized pulley pushing about 2x the normal boost. There is no way to intercool that setup other than water injection. It worked wonders on 92 octane gas. The aquamist requires tapping into the wiring harnesses, which I'm not crazy about doing.
11-15-2007, 07:11 AM
#9
No negatives so far - of course you should be aware of the potential danger...
ethanol (alcohol) has a tendency to attract water, which in turn becomes corrosive to the fuel system. There are also other chemical properties which are reported to break down rubber fuel lines.
That said, regarding water content, apparently the mandated water content limit is 1% (to prevent intentional diluting). This is not enough to harm anything (IMO). I have not yet seen any rubber line deterioration from the chemical perspective.
As I mentioned, I only drive the car seasonally and when parked for the winter months I run as much E-85 out of the tank as I can then fill with premium to reduce any chances of moisture attraction to the ethanol while the car sits.
The additional fuel volume combined with the alcohol cooling effect was dramatically noticeable in my car where hot boost comes from the roots supercharger and proceeds directly into the combustion chamber. Typically, the warmer the ambient temperature, the more timing was being pulled to compensate for increased detonation. I have a little device between the ECU and distributor which monitors a knock sensor and pulls timing (on a per-cylinder basis) when knock is detected. The device (a J&S Safeguard) also has a display indicating how many cylinders & how much timing is retarded so I can see as well as feel the performance difference. Running 91 octane a hot day would light up the J&S like xmas. On E-85 there is very little J&S activity and pronounced acceleration.
That said, regarding water content, apparently the mandated water content limit is 1% (to prevent intentional diluting). This is not enough to harm anything (IMO). I have not yet seen any rubber line deterioration from the chemical perspective.
As I mentioned, I only drive the car seasonally and when parked for the winter months I run as much E-85 out of the tank as I can then fill with premium to reduce any chances of moisture attraction to the ethanol while the car sits.
The additional fuel volume combined with the alcohol cooling effect was dramatically noticeable in my car where hot boost comes from the roots supercharger and proceeds directly into the combustion chamber. Typically, the warmer the ambient temperature, the more timing was being pulled to compensate for increased detonation. I have a little device between the ECU and distributor which monitors a knock sensor and pulls timing (on a per-cylinder basis) when knock is detected. The device (a J&S Safeguard) also has a display indicating how many cylinders & how much timing is retarded so I can see as well as feel the performance difference. Running 91 octane a hot day would light up the J&S like xmas. On E-85 there is very little J&S activity and pronounced acceleration.
11-15-2007, 10:25 AM
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Here's the wiring diagram for my control board.
<center><img src="http://pictureposter.audiworld.com/81774/misterinst.jpg"></center><p>There really isn't anything to see inside the car. I installed the LED's inside the empty switch spot on either side of the ESP button. The pump is next to the battery. I have a Dry cell Stinger battery (Lightwieght and very small) so I had ample room in there. You've seen the aquamist pump, it's not very compact to say the least. I never took any pictures of the intercoolers.... I nearly ruined them installing the nozzles. Luckily I new the right person to help me out installing bungs. Between that and the thermomiters they looked like frankenstien w/ braces. So I wasn't eager to show them off.
There is another board besides this one which is specifically for the injection. But I had to tap into the cars wiring. If your interested in this system you should just call them up (Australia). I had not intended for this system to run the injection. I bought it solely for the mister portion, then found out afterwards it was capable of both. They may just have an injection system.
My car has been under the knife (at a shop)for some time now, otherwise I'd run outside and snap some pics. To be quite honest with you I've been thinking about replacing this whole system & the RS4 intercoolers with as set of AWE's IC's. Part of the reason it's in the shop is to see if my current IC's are leaking, I've been seeing strange boost movement. And this setup has really just been a PITA, because of my quick & shotty install not the product itself. I really mangled the IC's up (discusted w/ myself). Definatly go w/ a bi-pipe for nozzle location.<ul><li><a href="http://autospeed.com/cms/article.html?&A=0527">http://autospeed.com/cms/article.html?&A=0527</a</li></ul>
There is another board besides this one which is specifically for the injection. But I had to tap into the cars wiring. If your interested in this system you should just call them up (Australia). I had not intended for this system to run the injection. I bought it solely for the mister portion, then found out afterwards it was capable of both. They may just have an injection system.
My car has been under the knife (at a shop)for some time now, otherwise I'd run outside and snap some pics. To be quite honest with you I've been thinking about replacing this whole system & the RS4 intercoolers with as set of AWE's IC's. Part of the reason it's in the shop is to see if my current IC's are leaking, I've been seeing strange boost movement. And this setup has really just been a PITA, because of my quick & shotty install not the product itself. I really mangled the IC's up (discusted w/ myself). Definatly go w/ a bi-pipe for nozzle location.<ul><li><a href="http://autospeed.com/cms/article.html?&A=0527">http://autospeed.com/cms/article.html?&A=0527</a</li></ul>