A letter I sent to Union 76 about their lousy gas in SoCal.
12-05-2003, 07:36 AM
#1
AudiWorld Super User
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jan 2003
Posts: 2,300
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
A letter I sent to Union 76 about their lousy gas in SoCal.
Dear Sirs..
As a resident of Southern California who drives performance cars, I must inform you that the recent switch to 91 from 92 octane fuel here has
presented we drivers of expensive high performance cars with a new set of problems. You see, 91 octane reformulated fuel is not working well in
high compression high horsepower engines. I recently purchased an Audi A6 V-8 and am unable to use your 91 octane fuel in it even though It states that it should run well on it. The lack of octane causes the
motor to ping horribly under moderate acceleration and if I continue to use this fuel it will cause damage to my engine over a period of time. I am unsure as to why you have lowered the octane in your fuel but the
results are not good. I recently visited Oklahoma and was pleased to be able to run my new car on 93 octane Sinclair gasoline. It ran beautifully but as soon as I enetered California again and filled up with 91 the pinging was back. Given that California has the highest
number of sports and exotic cars in the nation, it is a mystery as to how the 76 company decided that Ferraris and BMW's and Mercedes high performance engines would run just fine on this formerly "regular' fuel.
The absence of true Supreme fuel has now demanded that we as consumers look for alternatives to keep our cars running smoothly. I have noticed that a few select locations here on SoCal offer 100 Octane racing Fuel
at about $5 per gallon which is way more that the actual refining cost ( the same racing fuel sells for about $2.75 at racetracks here). Since this high octane gasoline is not really needed at full strength it becomes an expensive alternative to mix a few gallons of 100 octane with
91 in order to raise the tankfuls octane to 93 or so. This works but we as consumers shouldnt have to do this. Therefore, I humbly suggest that
your company offer us a pre-blended alternative at the pump for we drivers who have expensive cars that require a higher octane to run smoothly and also so we can enjoy our performance engines without fear of damage to them. If this is not possible due to some legal reasons
could you please explain what these limitations are since one can blend it oneself at the station anyway. Also, could you please explain your reasons for lowering the octane from 92 last year to 91 as it is now?
As consumers we have no choices at the pump and by adding a 93 octane blend at your stations like they have back east ( Sunoco, Sinclair etc) you could be the only company to appeal to this large sector of the
SoCal population who own high performance machines that are starved for the proper grade of fuel. Please pass this along to the powers that be for it is extremely important to an increasingly frustrated customer
base.
Thank You for your help.
Paul Marshall
Los Angeles. CA
As a resident of Southern California who drives performance cars, I must inform you that the recent switch to 91 from 92 octane fuel here has
presented we drivers of expensive high performance cars with a new set of problems. You see, 91 octane reformulated fuel is not working well in
high compression high horsepower engines. I recently purchased an Audi A6 V-8 and am unable to use your 91 octane fuel in it even though It states that it should run well on it. The lack of octane causes the
motor to ping horribly under moderate acceleration and if I continue to use this fuel it will cause damage to my engine over a period of time. I am unsure as to why you have lowered the octane in your fuel but the
results are not good. I recently visited Oklahoma and was pleased to be able to run my new car on 93 octane Sinclair gasoline. It ran beautifully but as soon as I enetered California again and filled up with 91 the pinging was back. Given that California has the highest
number of sports and exotic cars in the nation, it is a mystery as to how the 76 company decided that Ferraris and BMW's and Mercedes high performance engines would run just fine on this formerly "regular' fuel.
The absence of true Supreme fuel has now demanded that we as consumers look for alternatives to keep our cars running smoothly. I have noticed that a few select locations here on SoCal offer 100 Octane racing Fuel
at about $5 per gallon which is way more that the actual refining cost ( the same racing fuel sells for about $2.75 at racetracks here). Since this high octane gasoline is not really needed at full strength it becomes an expensive alternative to mix a few gallons of 100 octane with
91 in order to raise the tankfuls octane to 93 or so. This works but we as consumers shouldnt have to do this. Therefore, I humbly suggest that
your company offer us a pre-blended alternative at the pump for we drivers who have expensive cars that require a higher octane to run smoothly and also so we can enjoy our performance engines without fear of damage to them. If this is not possible due to some legal reasons
could you please explain what these limitations are since one can blend it oneself at the station anyway. Also, could you please explain your reasons for lowering the octane from 92 last year to 91 as it is now?
As consumers we have no choices at the pump and by adding a 93 octane blend at your stations like they have back east ( Sunoco, Sinclair etc) you could be the only company to appeal to this large sector of the
SoCal population who own high performance machines that are starved for the proper grade of fuel. Please pass this along to the powers that be for it is extremely important to an increasingly frustrated customer
base.
Thank You for your help.
Paul Marshall
Los Angeles. CA
12-05-2003, 07:39 AM
#2
AudiWorld Super User
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jan 2003
Posts: 2,300
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
And heres their reply ( took 2 months to reply)
Mr. Marshall,
California premium octane was reduced from 92.0 R+M/2 to 91.0 R+M/2 because refineries could not blend a 92.0 R+M/2 premium and still meet the Phase 2 & 3 CARB specifications, specifically the summer grade
premium gasoline specifications, without raising the price considerably. The CARB specifications limits the blend recipes to make cleaner burning
gasoline. Other parts of the country do not have these restrictions and can blend more aromatics or use MTBE to increase octane.
The 100 R+M/2 fuel is a specialty gasoline made by a very few refiners because there is a niche market for it, mainly in CA. The price for it is high because it requires expensive high octane blend stocks to make
it. Racing fuel is cheaper at the track because it is bought in bulk and it may contain lead making it unsuitable for public use. There are no restrictions put on the consumer to blend their own fuel or to use
off-the-shelf additives. Refiners have to meet EPA and state requirements on all the fuels they produced.
Thank you for pointing out a potential opportunity in marketing a higher octane premium. We would have to evaluate if we would get a return in
our investment to make the higher octane blend stock, and equip our stations with special blending dispensers and an extra storage tank. We also have 76 stations that we do not own. These retailers are independent businesses that use our 76 brand. They would also have to evaluate their position to sell higher octane fuel.
Thank you for your patronage and patience regarding this matter.
California premium octane was reduced from 92.0 R+M/2 to 91.0 R+M/2 because refineries could not blend a 92.0 R+M/2 premium and still meet the Phase 2 & 3 CARB specifications, specifically the summer grade
premium gasoline specifications, without raising the price considerably. The CARB specifications limits the blend recipes to make cleaner burning
gasoline. Other parts of the country do not have these restrictions and can blend more aromatics or use MTBE to increase octane.
The 100 R+M/2 fuel is a specialty gasoline made by a very few refiners because there is a niche market for it, mainly in CA. The price for it is high because it requires expensive high octane blend stocks to make
it. Racing fuel is cheaper at the track because it is bought in bulk and it may contain lead making it unsuitable for public use. There are no restrictions put on the consumer to blend their own fuel or to use
off-the-shelf additives. Refiners have to meet EPA and state requirements on all the fuels they produced.
Thank you for pointing out a potential opportunity in marketing a higher octane premium. We would have to evaluate if we would get a return in
our investment to make the higher octane blend stock, and equip our stations with special blending dispensers and an extra storage tank. We also have 76 stations that we do not own. These retailers are independent businesses that use our 76 brand. They would also have to evaluate their position to sell higher octane fuel.
Thank you for your patronage and patience regarding this matter.
12-05-2003, 11:12 AM
#5
Senior Member
Join Date: Mar 2000
Posts: 7,469
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
You are correct
Someone actually read the letter, thought about it, knew how to answer it, and wrote a response that addressed the concerns. I think that's damned impressive, and perhaps a reason to continue using their fuel.
But the answer should have been obvious to a So Cal resident without even turning on the word processor. It's CARB and AQMD determining what kind of gas can be sold.
But the answer should have been obvious to a So Cal resident without even turning on the word processor. It's CARB and AQMD determining what kind of gas can be sold.
12-05-2003, 11:21 AM
#6
New Member
Join Date: Jun 2003
Posts: 116
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Lemme throw some fuel on the fire!!
Sorry, couldn't resist the pud.
But seriously, I mix (to the horror of some purists) toluene It is the aromatic that is commonly used by the refiners to boost the octane rating. I ratio it the same way you do with the 100 octane racing gas. Toluene is 112 octane so the amount you add is less per the ratio. I buy it in bulk and have been using it for 4 years now.
Our cars love higher octane gas. I remember (anybody else?) a lister by the name of Diablo loving how his car ran in Toronto on 94 octane.
There are some who would not use anything unless it came out of a labeled bottle or pump but toluene is in there already as a gasoline constituent but you cannot get enough of it in So Cal per the carb regulations as they said in the reply letter.
FWIW
But seriously, I mix (to the horror of some purists) toluene It is the aromatic that is commonly used by the refiners to boost the octane rating. I ratio it the same way you do with the 100 octane racing gas. Toluene is 112 octane so the amount you add is less per the ratio. I buy it in bulk and have been using it for 4 years now.
Our cars love higher octane gas. I remember (anybody else?) a lister by the name of Diablo loving how his car ran in Toronto on 94 octane.
There are some who would not use anything unless it came out of a labeled bottle or pump but toluene is in there already as a gasoline constituent but you cannot get enough of it in So Cal per the carb regulations as they said in the reply letter.
FWIW