The most reliable luxury cars (Forbes). Almost all Japanese models.
02-21-2006, 01:12 PM
#24
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The meager chatter on Benz boards says that newer Benzes are also disposable.
Given that a vast majority of new cars are traded in before the 5 year mark, it would not shock me if they are engineered to get to 5 years. Having lived through an out-of-warranty German car, I can certainly attest that the cost of major repairs can easily approach 1/3 of the value of the vehicle.
02-21-2006, 01:27 PM
#25
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If "disposable" you mean after 250K miles...
then you may be right. Of course, what is an Audi worth after 250k miles?
You don't have to trust Consumer Reports or J.D. Power, the market tells you all you need to know. And when I see Honda's with 150k miles that originally cost 20K going for the same or more than Audi's that originally cost 40k, that is all I need to know.
I have had a Toyota Corolla, a J30 and a QX4 and haven't had any issues with any of them. Drove them all to approx. 200K miles. Of course, I have yet to have any real issues with my A6 yet either, knock on wood. But I am not expecting to be so lucky when it gets in the 120K-150K range. That's OK. I planned for that and I still bought the Audi. I didn't say the Japanese cars were "better". I just said they were more reliable.
That is why I always think those that try to discredit the rankings of Consumer's based upon "antiquated" testing methods and J.D. Power's based upon profit motive always come off as sounding like whiners. Would those same people be engaged in the same discrediting mode if their preferred car came out on top? I highly doubt it.
Why not, instead, just give credit to the Japanese where credit is due (reliability) and credit to Germans where credit is due there (cars with souls).
John in Cincy
You don't have to trust Consumer Reports or J.D. Power, the market tells you all you need to know. And when I see Honda's with 150k miles that originally cost 20K going for the same or more than Audi's that originally cost 40k, that is all I need to know.
I have had a Toyota Corolla, a J30 and a QX4 and haven't had any issues with any of them. Drove them all to approx. 200K miles. Of course, I have yet to have any real issues with my A6 yet either, knock on wood. But I am not expecting to be so lucky when it gets in the 120K-150K range. That's OK. I planned for that and I still bought the Audi. I didn't say the Japanese cars were "better". I just said they were more reliable.
That is why I always think those that try to discredit the rankings of Consumer's based upon "antiquated" testing methods and J.D. Power's based upon profit motive always come off as sounding like whiners. Would those same people be engaged in the same discrediting mode if their preferred car came out on top? I highly doubt it.
Why not, instead, just give credit to the Japanese where credit is due (reliability) and credit to Germans where credit is due there (cars with souls).
John in Cincy
02-21-2006, 02:39 PM
#27
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and as soon as you bought it you became one of the common masses...
did they give you your I'm average sticker too? When I bought my dakota, everyone said I should have bought the 4 door Tacoma. Yeech, I'll walk before I'll drive a Toyota.
02-21-2006, 02:40 PM
#29
By disposable I mean that there is no cachet or it vanishes rather quickly.
They also feel loosey goosey in a short time, even though most things seem to function just fine. That to me screams disposable. A short drive in a Camry is like riding in a sensory deprivation chamber and I just want to slit my wrists from boredom.
I think people confuse maintenance with reliability. European cars take a lot more maintenance - which also factors into their resale. Just because you can buy a German car for $5K, doesn't mean it's going to cost $5K kind of car money to keep it running ;-) That's the allure of used Japanese cars. Drive it until something breaks, fix it, and drive some more. Doing that with a European car invites multiple system failures ;-)
Like I've said before, my Toyota PU was the largest piece of ****e I have ever encountered this side of maybe Triumph Spitfire or 16v B3 Passat (not that I was crazy enough to own one of those). I went from a Toyota zealot to hater in one fell swoop. Then when I took cars in trade at the dealer, I noticed that a well cared for old Audi could be as nice if not nicer than the Japanese cars (that admittedly usually got far less care).
You're right though, on average Japanese cars are more reliable than the Europeans. But they still haven't got the character or driving intangibles thing down.
I think people confuse maintenance with reliability. European cars take a lot more maintenance - which also factors into their resale. Just because you can buy a German car for $5K, doesn't mean it's going to cost $5K kind of car money to keep it running ;-) That's the allure of used Japanese cars. Drive it until something breaks, fix it, and drive some more. Doing that with a European car invites multiple system failures ;-)
Like I've said before, my Toyota PU was the largest piece of ****e I have ever encountered this side of maybe Triumph Spitfire or 16v B3 Passat (not that I was crazy enough to own one of those). I went from a Toyota zealot to hater in one fell swoop. Then when I took cars in trade at the dealer, I noticed that a well cared for old Audi could be as nice if not nicer than the Japanese cars (that admittedly usually got far less care).
You're right though, on average Japanese cars are more reliable than the Europeans. But they still haven't got the character or driving intangibles thing down.
02-21-2006, 03:21 PM
#30
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visiting the dealer 30 times in 3 years....
oh tell me how Audi quality is worth that much time in your life.
I'd rather have average and dependability than an over depreciating A6.
I'd rather have average and dependability than an over depreciating A6.