Bollinger

I drove back from Tahoe today and between Quattro and ABS, I was able to stay far clear of the ditches under conditions which befuddled most everyone else.

Before I shoot into the hyperbole though I also have to mention that I'm sure a huge portion of it was actually driving my vehicle with an awareness that conditions stunk. Nothing can keep an idiot driver out of the ditch.

I drove up to Tahoe (Kirkwood) last night for my last day of snowboarding this year. Today was forecast to be clear and have a low temp of 25 degrees (F). Neither of these turned out to be true.

The wind varied from about 0-20mph (far worse at the top of the hill) and changed directions a lot. The snow varied from light snowfall to heavy snowfall (I'd guess 3 inches an hour), with an average rate probably of just over an inch an hour.

I was on my stock (non-sport) Conti all-seasons in my 2000 A6 2.7TQ (no stability control here).

When I left Kirkwood, it was at the heavier end of the snowfall rate and would get worse as we went. The wind was down, but perhaps just because of the trees lining the road. I took 88 down to Stockton. The conditions were clearly chain control, but Kirkwood is in the middle of a section, and they had failed to turn the reminder sign they sometimes do. So a very poor judge of road conditions might go out onto 88 with no chains and no AWD. Many did.

As I waited to turn left onto 88 a Saab in front of me took about 3 attempts to try to turn onto 88, which was lightly covered with snow. He puncuated these attempts with random jabs at the brakes (even though no other traffic was around). After a couple stabs of his I decided to turn inside him onto 88 ahead of him. As I turned around him (having no difficulty), he finally got his car turned onto the road, so we were alongside for a moment. He gave me a dirty look as I went past him with my superior traction.

Honestly I don't blame him. I was doing something wrong. Not dangerous, but wrong. However I have huge problem with people who think that throwing on the brakes (his Saab was too old to have ABS, btw) when things get slightly sketchy on a snowy road. I don't like to be behind them. As it turned out, I was right. You'll see.

Things weren't really all that bad for the first couple miles. Just keep the speed down and keep your wits around you. Also, avoid the poor drivers. I did pull past one person in a pickup who pulled off the road to let me by, and passed another (enormous, Suburban?) SUV driver who seemed frightened to death, but didn't quite pull off the road, just left me half a lane. To pass them I took things easy, and never exceeded 30mph.

After a while, the snowfall got really heavy and the road started to get very slippery. Far more slippery than I would have imagined with less than 2 inches of snow on the road.

I went by two plows about to enter the road. By this time we had a little train of cars around me. All of us seemed to be doing okay. I would have told you the grip was poor at this point, but given later experiences, it was actually excellent. No concerns yet of slipping out during turns. I had my rear fog light on for the poor visibility which was probably about 100 feet before you could only tell snow from trees (and thus at least still see the road but not make out cars).

Shortly after passing the plows things turned very bad. On a slight upslope (maybe 4%) the pickup truck ahead of me no longer could get enough grip to proceed uphill. He slid sideways into the deeper snow and stopped about halfway up the grade. I was having no problem maintaining a slow and steady speed.

My passenger noted that there was a truck up ahead on the road and then even stranger a person standing on the side of the road. The truck pulled away and we noticed that the person on the road was watching her friend climb out of the back door of their Cherokee which was on its side in the ditch (metaphorically, actually there was no ditch, it off the road in the trees).

When we could find a suitable place, we stopped and turned around (long stretch of straight road, were I could be seen and no traffic was evident so as not to get rammed) and asked them if they needed help. I asked if they had phoned, but as they pointed out on this section of 88 phones don't work. They asked if I could drive back to the two plows I had passed (they passed them too) and bring help.

My passenger got back in the car (he stayed with them as I turned around) and we headed back down the grade where the pickup was still stopped. Past the bottom we saw a plow. We stopped in the road and I waved my arm at him. He stopped and I gave him the scoop, pointing out that there was a car about a mile ahead which was flipped over on the side of the road. He apparently called for help immediately, as I later saw a Police SUV on the way.

After I passed him and the second plow behind him, I looked for a place to turn around again and did. Now I was following the plows about 1/2 mile behind. The road was still horrible, it was just snowing too fast.

As we neared the slope again I saw that the plows were stopped by another car at the bottom of the grade which was apparently also unable to make it up the slope. I thought perhaps they had got confused and missed my point about the "flipped over" car and stopped there instead. I went on by anyway, and the plows pulled out behind me. I passed the stopped pickup and the plows stopped and asked him if he was okay also. I stopped by the people with the rolled Cherokee and told them the plow was on its way. They could see it behind me and we said goodbye and went on our way. I had scaled the same grade (unplowed) TWICE with no incident that other vehicles couldn't even manage once.

Over the next two miles or so I passed another truck which had skidded off and hit a snowbank head on. The snowbank was hiding the beginning of a guardrail (ow). He had backed up off into a turnout area (what others call a lay-by). To figure out what to do next. His vehicle seemed only superficially harmed.

By now I had no one ahead but had picked up two followers. Some kind of car (I couldn't make it out) and a very boxy Isuzu SUV. Both seemed as happy to lay back and do a miserable 25mph as I was. Soon the car seemed to give up and pull over. I presume he waited for the plows to pass and followed them with more success. The Isuzu would stay with me to the end and prove to be at least as competent and careful driver as I was.

As conditions worsened, I thought of stopping and waiting for the plows to pass also. However, I decided that conditions were worsening and that 25mph of progress was better than 0, especially if the plows stopped for every stopped car I passed (I haven't even mentioned the ones stopped on the other side of the road).

Next up vehicle on the side of the road was my old friend the Saab. Apparently when I double-backed to the plows, he got ahead of me. He had skidded into deep snow and was just barely off the road but in some deep stuff. A truck had stopped and they were using snowshoes to try and dig the Saab out. FWD may have done him a disfavor trying to get out, as the front of the car was in 18 inches of snow while the rear wheels were still partially on the main track of the road. I felt this had proved my somewhat aggressive maneuver back at Kirkwood to pass him was the right move (although negated by doubling back) as he probably got into the ditch with one of his random brake applications and I wouldn't have liked to have put up the danger that would have put me in following him. He did not have AWD or chains.

Less than a mile after that there was a flare in the road on a curve. I saw it far ahead of time and threw on the brakes. Now, as I had learned already a couple miles back, it was so slick that if you were on a downslope, there was little the brakes could do. The ABS would work its butt off, but it was impossible to slow down much. It would take at least a hundred feet to get from 25mph to 15, and once you got to about 15 the tires would somehow grip and stop the car pretty quickly with no more ABS intervention. I do feel the 4,000lb weight of the A6 was not helping me stop on these downslopes.

Around this corner was a truck which had spun around I guess, there were two cars there and 3 or 4 emergency vehicles. The people involved were cleaning up after the accident, getting their ski gear out of the truck before it was put on the hook. It was necessary to take extra care here, as the road which is usually a wide 2 lanes, was reduced to a narrow 1 by all the equipment in the road here.

Although the conditions only got slightly better, for the next 4 or 5 miles, the road was clear. It was my theory that everyone who was going to cause an accident had already done so and the only of us left were good drivers with cars equipped to handle it, including several FWD minivans and RWD pickups which were putting chains to good use.

There were a couple cars in trouble on the other side after that, presumably people coming the other way (as I was approaching the snow level, having gone down 2,000ft+ in the last 20 miles). I did pass an SUV trying to pull a Suzuki Samurai out of the ditch. The Samurai had somehow gone into the ditch exactly 90 degrees from the direction he should have been heading. Frankly, the SUV didn't stand a chance of getting enough traction to pull him out.

The last interesting thing I saw was a minivan turning around directly in front of me. He was heading up the mountain (towards me), but he turned around and headed back. This was probably the smartest thing I saw anyone do all day. The snow line was only about 2/10ths of a mile further down the road and the minivan and I happily embraced the change from snowy roads to merely monsoon wet ones with standing water.

Did Quattro and ABS make the trip a cinch? No, not by far. At times the rear wheels would actually fail to track behind the fronts due to slippery roads and a sideslope. Once the rear end decided to take a peek ahead and got about 10 degrees out to the side. A clear head and Quattro did get that back into line in short order. Good snow tires might have even prevented these incidents.

Sometimes you could clearly feel the rears were doing the work, other times the front. Pulling off the road to help people let me appreciate how easy it was to pull back on the road from deep snow with perhaps a little EDL noise as the wheels straddled the road track and the snow offline.

Quattro did make me unafraid to pull off the road and back on. It let me think more of where I wanted to go and less of how bad the grip was. It also probably helped me climb several of the inclines others couldn't.

But despite all that, I think ABS was perhaps the real star of the day. I had never expected to use it as often as I did in those hours. Every braking on a downslope invoked the ABS.

I'm no fool, I used to drive without ABS, and I know when the ABS came on on a downslope, I probably could have modulated the brake myself to do the stopping. But what ABS really did was make it so that I never had to worry about the car turning sideways if a wheel locked. Back in the old days, that was the real killer on snow. If one wheel locked, you could enter a skid. Then you would have to release the brakes for quite some time as you got the car straight again. You had to do this no matter how close the obstacle you are braking to avoid was. With ABS the car always stopped dead straight. Even if one wheel was in a rut and one out. No matter what. That alone was a miracle. I never tried turning while the ABS was on and I never stomped the brake as you are supposed to do to minimize the stopping distances. I was quite happy with what ABS gave me without trying any of those things which might have made ABS even more helpful.

If I didn't have Quattro I might have lost a lot of time as I had to wait for plows or some other help to get up that slope. But if I didn't have ABS I feel my car could easily have ended up damaged in a ditch. That's a lot more inconvenient and embarassing than being stopped on an upslope waiting for help.

All these accidents may have given you the idea that the road was heavily travelled. It isn't, especially on a Wednesday. From my experience looking around and doubling back and seeing the people on both sides of the road, about 30% of the people who tried to make the journey on that road made it through. The figure would be lower if you counted as failures the people who stopped at Ham's Station (or the other something-Station town I forget the name of) to wait until the roads were clearer. The figure would have been higher if everyone (instead of most people) on the road with 2WD vehicles had the sense to stop and put chains on even though they didn't see a sign. CalTrans can't do all the thinking for you!

The success rate would have been much higher if people in 4WD trucks (Cherokees, Samurais, the two pickups) didn't think that being in a 4WD truck meant you don't have to be careful. I only saw two vehicles actually off the road in the ditch, and they were both SUVs. And two of the other three vehicles which spun at least partially two were trucks. It's always that way.

Now, to counter this, the Isuzu behind me was a clear reminder that some SUV drivers really know what they are doing and respect the limitations of the vehicle they are driving.

When I got down to Jackson, it was pouring rain and lightning (in the foothills?). Once we reached the Central Valley we looked back at the area we had come from and saw those very tall storm clouds (thunderheads) that we never get in California. It seemed somewhat isolated, and driving out on 80 (North Tahoe) might have been uneventful. The system was just getting to Kirkwood, which explained why conditions got worse as we drove on even though the altitude was dropping. If you are going to Kirkwood in the next couple days, expect to see another 12" of snow there.

Summer tires go on Monday. This likely signals the end of my Snowboarding for the season, unless someone else gives me a ride.

Norcal2.7t

I drive in similar conditions on a regular basis and am happy to hear your story. Had to go to the bathroom twice while reading it as it was a little longer than most posts. Ha. Do you carry chains and if so, ever had to put them on? I'm thinking that chains are likely once or twice a year here in Tahoe/Hwy 20/88 areas. The non-sport clearance in the wheel hub may be beneficial for the chains.

Doug
01' 2.7t silver/tung
non-psk, 17" BBS RC

Brian-PA

snowboard? Never would have thunk it :-). I started snowboarding a couple of years ago just for fun. Really enjoy it.

That really was a looooonnnnnngggggg post. Broke my scroll button

LCP

...3256 vs. 2730. And posts in the off-topic forum don't count if you're looking for one longer! See my track report:<ul><li><a href="https://forums.audiworld.com/racing/msgs/12232.phtml">https://forums.audiworld.com/racing/msgs/12232.phtml</a</li></ul>

2.7tDallas

I printed this out to read at Starbucks tonight...right after War and Peace

2.7tDallas

On this topic this month. 75% of the cars in Germany I saw last week had winter tires on them.

Bollinger

Look at your front wheels, up under the wheel well there is a thingy (okay, front upper control knuckle or something) which actually hangs out over the tire but is attached to the suspension. You need to clear this with your chains.

Spikes/spiders would work, but are too large to carry for only using once or twice a year. Audi will recommend some narrow profile wheels and tires. Put those on first, then chains fit.

Since I don't have winter rims and special tires, I don't carry chains.

Finman

cars are BOSS--Thanks Steve

beep-beep

Please pack all this snow in UPS boxes and send it to New York. We have blue ice on the slope and bare spots in the halfpipe.

April

Your story gives me that warm fuzzy feeling. Slow but steady wins the day.