Subaru vs. Audi
10-18-2003, 05:48 AM
#1
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Subaru vs. Audi
I just dont understand this comparison at all. The only thing these two cars have in common are...
Both are AWD.
Both have Turbos.
Both are made outside of this country.
Other than that, no similarities. The Subuaru makes a nice car bang for the buck but its SO different than an Audi (thank God) that I just dont understand the comparisons.
Subaru's have a few things going for it...
Quicker out of the box.
Less money.
That's it.
The Audi has...
A longer warranty which also includes maintenance (worth AT LEAST $1000 over the entire term).
MUCH nicer styling - this isnt even an opinion. There's no Scooby on the planet that has better styling than an Audi.
MUCH nicer interior - See above.
Higher build quality and feel - Look at the fit and finish of a Subaru and listen to the rattly doors. They're inexpensive (READ CHEAP) cars that do their job well but just dont compare to German design and engineering.
Audi also is superiour in driving experience and road feel. Some Subaru's may be faster and MAYBE even handle a little better but they do not provide the visceral driving experience and Audi does.
If you DO NOT understand the difference between and Audi and a Scooby...GO BUY A SUBARU. You dont deserve an Audi.
WOW - look at THOSE lines! Simply beautiful. The cars look like Salvador Dali played with too many legos. Thrown together, no form.
<img src="http://www.edmunds.com/media/roadtests/roadtest/03.subaru.baja/03.subaru.baja.f34-1.500.jpg">
Here's a very simply small picture of an Audi. MUCH nicer lines, form and function. This is a driver's car that is well designed compared and has average to great performance.
<img src="http://www.autointell.com/european_companies/volkswagen/audi-ag/audi-a4-2001/audi-a4-rear-01-350-187.jpg">
Both are AWD.
Both have Turbos.
Both are made outside of this country.
Other than that, no similarities. The Subuaru makes a nice car bang for the buck but its SO different than an Audi (thank God) that I just dont understand the comparisons.
Subaru's have a few things going for it...
Quicker out of the box.
Less money.
That's it.
The Audi has...
A longer warranty which also includes maintenance (worth AT LEAST $1000 over the entire term).
MUCH nicer styling - this isnt even an opinion. There's no Scooby on the planet that has better styling than an Audi.
MUCH nicer interior - See above.
Higher build quality and feel - Look at the fit and finish of a Subaru and listen to the rattly doors. They're inexpensive (READ CHEAP) cars that do their job well but just dont compare to German design and engineering.
Audi also is superiour in driving experience and road feel. Some Subaru's may be faster and MAYBE even handle a little better but they do not provide the visceral driving experience and Audi does.
If you DO NOT understand the difference between and Audi and a Scooby...GO BUY A SUBARU. You dont deserve an Audi.
WOW - look at THOSE lines! Simply beautiful. The cars look like Salvador Dali played with too many legos. Thrown together, no form.
<img src="http://www.edmunds.com/media/roadtests/roadtest/03.subaru.baja/03.subaru.baja.f34-1.500.jpg">
Here's a very simply small picture of an Audi. MUCH nicer lines, form and function. This is a driver's car that is well designed compared and has average to great performance.
<img src="http://www.autointell.com/european_companies/volkswagen/audi-ag/audi-a4-2001/audi-a4-rear-01-350-187.jpg">
10-18-2003, 10:47 AM
#3
Ok I'll bite. Nice comparison - the uggliest Subaru to the perhaps the nicest Audi designed so far.
"Quicker out of the box.
Less money.
That's it."
"A longer warranty which also includes maintenance (worth AT LEAST $1000 over the entire term)."
Trust me, you'll need it : )
"MUCH nicer styling - this isnt even an opinion. There's no Scooby on the planet that has better styling than an Audi."
Actually this is up for debate. I personally like the lines of the Audi better for elegance. No question the body panels required better engineering and higher cost to manufacturer. However, the subaru (wrx specifically) looks mean. The body panels are angular, the lines are straight, not smooth. Inferior technology? Yes, by design.
"MUCH nicer interior - See above."
I agree.
"Higher build quality and feel - Look at the fit and finish of a Subaru and listen to the rattly doors."
All I can tell you is that I had more rattles in my Audi than I do in my STi. Same with my gf's B6 A4. The difference is that any rattles I find in my subbie, I can fix without taking it to the dealer. I also find this statement funny with all the crappy parts that Audi sourced on the 2.7T - maf, temp sensor, o2 sensors, bpvs, tbbs, plastic end tanks of the ICs, etc. Shall I continue?
"They're inexpensive (READ CHEAP) cars that do their job well but just dont compare to German design and engineering."
The STi is the 3rd best braking car in the world behind the Evo 8 and the Porsche turbo. It pulls over .9 gs on the skid pad and goes 0-60 in 4.6seconds. The 2.5 liter engines puts out 300HP and 300lb-ft at a usable level in the powerband.
"Audi also is superiour in driving experience and road feel. Some Subaru's may be faster and MAYBE even handle a little better but they do not provide the visceral driving experience and Audi does."
All I can tell you is that obviously have never driven a WRX or a WRX STi. If you think your A6 handles well and provides good feedback compared to a car basically designed to compete in the WRC you are just kidding yourself.
"If you DO NOT understand the difference between and Audi and a Scooby...GO BUY A SUBARU. You dont deserve an Audi."
There is a difference, but what you fail to realize is that both Audi and Subaru wanted it that way. Audi doesn't want to make cars that are light and quick with terrific engine, handling, steering, etc. feedback. Just as Subaru doesn't want to make a car that is designed to carry 4 people comfortably at 150mph on the Autobahn.
I agree that the comparison is bogus, but you seem to be suggesting that the comparison isn't valid because Subaru's are junk and Audi's are the pinnacle of engineering. Nothing could be further from the truth.
Respectfully,
-st
Less money.
That's it."
"A longer warranty which also includes maintenance (worth AT LEAST $1000 over the entire term)."
Trust me, you'll need it : )
"MUCH nicer styling - this isnt even an opinion. There's no Scooby on the planet that has better styling than an Audi."
Actually this is up for debate. I personally like the lines of the Audi better for elegance. No question the body panels required better engineering and higher cost to manufacturer. However, the subaru (wrx specifically) looks mean. The body panels are angular, the lines are straight, not smooth. Inferior technology? Yes, by design.
"MUCH nicer interior - See above."
I agree.
"Higher build quality and feel - Look at the fit and finish of a Subaru and listen to the rattly doors."
All I can tell you is that I had more rattles in my Audi than I do in my STi. Same with my gf's B6 A4. The difference is that any rattles I find in my subbie, I can fix without taking it to the dealer. I also find this statement funny with all the crappy parts that Audi sourced on the 2.7T - maf, temp sensor, o2 sensors, bpvs, tbbs, plastic end tanks of the ICs, etc. Shall I continue?
"They're inexpensive (READ CHEAP) cars that do their job well but just dont compare to German design and engineering."
The STi is the 3rd best braking car in the world behind the Evo 8 and the Porsche turbo. It pulls over .9 gs on the skid pad and goes 0-60 in 4.6seconds. The 2.5 liter engines puts out 300HP and 300lb-ft at a usable level in the powerband.
"Audi also is superiour in driving experience and road feel. Some Subaru's may be faster and MAYBE even handle a little better but they do not provide the visceral driving experience and Audi does."
All I can tell you is that obviously have never driven a WRX or a WRX STi. If you think your A6 handles well and provides good feedback compared to a car basically designed to compete in the WRC you are just kidding yourself.
"If you DO NOT understand the difference between and Audi and a Scooby...GO BUY A SUBARU. You dont deserve an Audi."
There is a difference, but what you fail to realize is that both Audi and Subaru wanted it that way. Audi doesn't want to make cars that are light and quick with terrific engine, handling, steering, etc. feedback. Just as Subaru doesn't want to make a car that is designed to carry 4 people comfortably at 150mph on the Autobahn.
I agree that the comparison is bogus, but you seem to be suggesting that the comparison isn't valid because Subaru's are junk and Audi's are the pinnacle of engineering. Nothing could be further from the truth.
Respectfully,
-st
10-18-2003, 11:15 AM
#4
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Re: Rattles and more...
I've had Audi's with over 110K miles that have less creaks than a new Subaru. Yes, I have driven the WRX and it's good bang for the buck car. A WRX is noisy rattly car, even the reviews say the same.
I've NEVER had a bad BPV, torn TBB or anything similar. I went through 2 MAF's because I was running BOV's for 5000 miles. THat was my mistake.
Like I said, I've driven WRX's a few times and like I said, it IS a fast car but to me it's not very passionate. They look like 90% of the other Subaru's on the road (save an STi which is COMPLETELY riced IMHO). As you rattle down the road in a Subaru compare it to a solid tight-feeling Audi. I can't say the experience is even remotely the same.
My whole point was there were a few people saying "why should I buy an Audi if I can get a Subaru that does 0 - 60 in 5.3 for $20K less etc..." Those are the people that have no clue about cars in general. If you buy a car based on spec sheets and MSRP, you're missing the boat.
Subaru's aren't junk per se but they dont compare to the total engineering package and Audi offers. Also you're comparing uber-sport cars (STi) to what? Compare it to an S4 then...tell me how much better an STi handles than a B6 S4.
Again, Subaru's are good bangs for the buck but they shouldnt be directly compared to an Audi because they have a lower 0 - 60 time for less money.
I've NEVER had a bad BPV, torn TBB or anything similar. I went through 2 MAF's because I was running BOV's for 5000 miles. THat was my mistake.
Like I said, I've driven WRX's a few times and like I said, it IS a fast car but to me it's not very passionate. They look like 90% of the other Subaru's on the road (save an STi which is COMPLETELY riced IMHO). As you rattle down the road in a Subaru compare it to a solid tight-feeling Audi. I can't say the experience is even remotely the same.
My whole point was there were a few people saying "why should I buy an Audi if I can get a Subaru that does 0 - 60 in 5.3 for $20K less etc..." Those are the people that have no clue about cars in general. If you buy a car based on spec sheets and MSRP, you're missing the boat.
Subaru's aren't junk per se but they dont compare to the total engineering package and Audi offers. Also you're comparing uber-sport cars (STi) to what? Compare it to an S4 then...tell me how much better an STi handles than a B6 S4.
Again, Subaru's are good bangs for the buck but they shouldnt be directly compared to an Audi because they have a lower 0 - 60 time for less money.
10-18-2003, 01:35 PM
#5
You need to look at the WRX like a S2000 or a Corvette or an M3...
They are ALL noisey compared to an Audi. Why? Because they but the emphasis on performance.
Just because you haven't had anything fail on your car doesn't refute tons of evidence on this board that the A6 has been far less than reliable. Not to mention all the problems on the S4 forum.
Apparently passionate for you is defined by looks and noise level. That is fine, everyone wants something different out of a car. If that is what you are looking for, than Subaru is clearly not the way to go.
The people comparing the Subaru to an Audi - it's not that they don't know anything about cars. It's just that they don't put the emphasis on the same things as you.
STi vs. the Audi B6 S4? Another worthless comparison IMO. This one not because of performance, because the S4 is very nice, but because you are comparing a 4000+lb LUXURY sports SEDAN to a 3200 lb Japanese sports car. Yes, the STi is a sports car and not a sedan, anyone who has sat in the back of one knows that : ) The performance might be similar, but the experience is totally different. I don't need to drive the S4 to know that I will be more detached from the road than an STi. I know because Audi wants it that way, they designed the car that way, and their customers want it that way.
What I find offensive about your statements, and really the only reason I replied, is that you think Audi has a leg up on Subaru in terms of engineering. Unfortunately, this just isn't the case. Subaru designs for the markets they compete in and that's it. They don't have inferior engineering or ****ty noisey cars, they are trying to hit a price point.
Furthermore, the things that are important to German car companies and German car enthusiasts do not translate to other car companies (read Japanese) and other enthusiasts (ricers I'm sure by your standards).
The fact that you think certain things that you find to be important should be applied to all makes/models/manufacturers of cars just reflects how close-minded you are about the automobile business and car enthusiast industry in general.
All that being said, when Subaru releases the new Legacy, they will steal away yet more of the German car enthusiasts. The performance will be comparable, if not better, the luxury most likely worse, and the reliability better.
-st
Just because you haven't had anything fail on your car doesn't refute tons of evidence on this board that the A6 has been far less than reliable. Not to mention all the problems on the S4 forum.
Apparently passionate for you is defined by looks and noise level. That is fine, everyone wants something different out of a car. If that is what you are looking for, than Subaru is clearly not the way to go.
The people comparing the Subaru to an Audi - it's not that they don't know anything about cars. It's just that they don't put the emphasis on the same things as you.
STi vs. the Audi B6 S4? Another worthless comparison IMO. This one not because of performance, because the S4 is very nice, but because you are comparing a 4000+lb LUXURY sports SEDAN to a 3200 lb Japanese sports car. Yes, the STi is a sports car and not a sedan, anyone who has sat in the back of one knows that : ) The performance might be similar, but the experience is totally different. I don't need to drive the S4 to know that I will be more detached from the road than an STi. I know because Audi wants it that way, they designed the car that way, and their customers want it that way.
What I find offensive about your statements, and really the only reason I replied, is that you think Audi has a leg up on Subaru in terms of engineering. Unfortunately, this just isn't the case. Subaru designs for the markets they compete in and that's it. They don't have inferior engineering or ****ty noisey cars, they are trying to hit a price point.
Furthermore, the things that are important to German car companies and German car enthusiasts do not translate to other car companies (read Japanese) and other enthusiasts (ricers I'm sure by your standards).
The fact that you think certain things that you find to be important should be applied to all makes/models/manufacturers of cars just reflects how close-minded you are about the automobile business and car enthusiast industry in general.
All that being said, when Subaru releases the new Legacy, they will steal away yet more of the German car enthusiasts. The performance will be comparable, if not better, the luxury most likely worse, and the reliability better.
-st
10-18-2003, 04:00 PM
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Ok, now I'll bite
Since you despise of Audi's and love Subaru's as much as you do, leave AudiWorld and get your *** to a Subaru forum. No Audi haters allowed on AW, Singletrack.
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10-18-2003, 05:10 PM
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We have both...
...a brand new Subaru Forester XT (which has the STi 2.5 turbo, detuned to -- conservatively -- 215 HP), and a 2001 allroad.
We traded a 99 Forester S for the new XT, and comparing the two is a valid exercise -- the XT has the power this car needs to be driveable. (We're at 7200', here in Santa Fe, and turbos really do help a lot.) The 99 was way underpowered, but this one is a lot of fun.
Comparing the Subaru and the Audi isn't a valid exercise -- nor would a comparision between, say, an H6 Outback and an allroad be valid. They're simply different cars. While I like driving the XT around town and on short road trips -- it's a great in-town grocery getter and fine for light-duty off-roading -- whenever I get back into the allroad I'm surprised by how much more power it has (despite the extra weight) and how much better the handling is (despite the longer wheelbase).
And of course the interiors are apples and oranges. HPH
We traded a 99 Forester S for the new XT, and comparing the two is a valid exercise -- the XT has the power this car needs to be driveable. (We're at 7200', here in Santa Fe, and turbos really do help a lot.) The 99 was way underpowered, but this one is a lot of fun.
Comparing the Subaru and the Audi isn't a valid exercise -- nor would a comparision between, say, an H6 Outback and an allroad be valid. They're simply different cars. While I like driving the XT around town and on short road trips -- it's a great in-town grocery getter and fine for light-duty off-roading -- whenever I get back into the allroad I'm surprised by how much more power it has (despite the extra weight) and how much better the handling is (despite the longer wheelbase).
And of course the interiors are apples and oranges. HPH
10-18-2003, 05:12 PM
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Audi and Subaru warranty.
Seem compatible to me.
Audi is 4/50 Bumper to bumper.
Subaru is 3/36 bumper to bumber and 5/60 for power train.
I actually prefer the extra year on power train as usually that is the more expensive repairs.
Audi is 4/50 Bumper to bumper.
Subaru is 3/36 bumper to bumber and 5/60 for power train.
I actually prefer the extra year on power train as usually that is the more expensive repairs.