Tomorrow makes one month of my 4.2 experience. (Stereo Sub Questions)
11-07-2003, 10:34 AM
#11
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BTDT. Relatively easy. See Tech section, B5 S4 writeup IIRC.
I added one to my avant. All you have to do is use the wiring sceme from the tech section, tap into the wiring harness at the amp for power, ground, remote turn-on and then tap the line-out to the Bose sub amp for sound.
Run the line level out through a line-level converter (available at almost any best buy radio shack, etc) and into your sub amp. Plug the sub amp into at least a 10" (or better yet 12") box and you'll be happy.
ALSO: take a large masons sponge (just any big tough sponge really) and cut it to size to fit in the Bose sub port. Leave the bose sub active, it doesn't hurt and with the port blocked the boominess is GONE - it almost sounds good.
Lastly, hold down the 5 button and RBDS button when you power on the radio and adjust the internal EQ settings to suit.
They are settings for front and rear, with the sound spectrum split into 4 parts like so:
SUB,LOW,MID,HIGH,SUB,LOW,MID,HIGH
Change the numbers and you'll see what a difference it makes - "5" is center. Lots of writeups on this if you need more info - just SEARCH! :-)
As for brands, I like my rockford fosgate amp - it's about 10 years old now, has been in and out of almost that many cars, and still plays like new. I also have an UNPORTED box with a Rockford "Audiophile" line 10" sub, also 10 years old and like new.
Don't buy a cheap amp or sub, buy used on ebay before cheap new, just make sure you're buying 'the good stuff'.
Have fun! BTW, just the EQ settings and sponge in the Bose sub port will help a lot! Do that part immediately. You may not even bother with the sub, but if you do you'll be glad you did.
Have fun!
Sarge
Run the line level out through a line-level converter (available at almost any best buy radio shack, etc) and into your sub amp. Plug the sub amp into at least a 10" (or better yet 12") box and you'll be happy.
ALSO: take a large masons sponge (just any big tough sponge really) and cut it to size to fit in the Bose sub port. Leave the bose sub active, it doesn't hurt and with the port blocked the boominess is GONE - it almost sounds good.
Lastly, hold down the 5 button and RBDS button when you power on the radio and adjust the internal EQ settings to suit.
They are settings for front and rear, with the sound spectrum split into 4 parts like so:
SUB,LOW,MID,HIGH,SUB,LOW,MID,HIGH
Change the numbers and you'll see what a difference it makes - "5" is center. Lots of writeups on this if you need more info - just SEARCH! :-)
As for brands, I like my rockford fosgate amp - it's about 10 years old now, has been in and out of almost that many cars, and still plays like new. I also have an UNPORTED box with a Rockford "Audiophile" line 10" sub, also 10 years old and like new.
Don't buy a cheap amp or sub, buy used on ebay before cheap new, just make sure you're buying 'the good stuff'.
Have fun! BTW, just the EQ settings and sponge in the Bose sub port will help a lot! Do that part immediately. You may not even bother with the sub, but if you do you'll be glad you did.
Have fun!
Sarge
11-07-2003, 10:36 AM
#12
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Head unit is the same Bose or Non. Just needs to be programmed.
It's the amps and speakers along with a custom EQ map that makes the Bose a Bose.
You can add a sub to the bose system fairly easily. I did. see post above.
You can add a sub to the bose system fairly easily. I did. see post above.
11-07-2003, 10:44 AM
#13
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First: try my EQ settings (link). Second, remove door to sub. Third....
Lower your standards. Kidding....
I also stuffed some absorptive material in the woofer compartment (not the woofer itself or port), and added stuff like flashlight and fire extinguisher, to prevent resonance in there.
BTW, you need to add the year of your car to your sig. I'm assuming it is 2001 or earlier?
I haven't tinkered so I don't know first hand. But the best way is to find the pre-outs on the head unit, and add an amp and sub to that. The signal sent to the Bose sub is equalized for their sub only, not good with another sub.
I haven't found a particular sub that I'd want to use on the A6. I put a single JL Audio 10 or 12" sub in my Honda, and it did very well. But placing the box in the trunk requires a lot of experimenting to find the best response (flat and low in distortion, which results from vibration of the trunk panels and seat!). I ended up putting speaker grilles in the rear deck that were empty through-holes into the trunk. The woofer sat right below them on the floor and aimed up at the grilles. I braced it against the seat to stay put.
There are tons of woofers, from band-pass types (I don't like the sound usually) to sealed or ported boxes sitting in the trunk to woofers slapped under the shelf and firing directly into the passenger compartment. My preference would be to develop a box that bolts up under the deck and fires directly through it. I would mount it with wing nuts so I could remove it for extra trunk space when needed.
I would recommend an adjustable crossover so you can try to make it blend with the main stereo. In my Honda, I used a Phoenix gold crossover with adjustable crossover frequency and level for both high-pass (you wouldn't use this if you stick to the stock stereo) and low pass (for the woofer amp).
My goal is to replace all speakers and amps, and use the stock head unit but turn off all the Bose equalization (see links in the attached linked message). This might run about $5k... why I haven't done it. I'd rather spend that on the home stereo, it seems.
Just to reiterate, don't attach a new sub amp to the old sub wires. It is equalized, so you can't get a flat or deep response out of it. Plus, you don't want to use one of those adapters from speaker level to line level, anyway. Tie into the preamp/line outs from the head unit. That part I haven't done, but I've bookmarked messages about how in the FAQ.<ul><li><a href="https://forums.audiworld.com/s4/msgs/851471.phtml">A message of mine about EQ, with various links at the bottom</a></li></ul>
I also stuffed some absorptive material in the woofer compartment (not the woofer itself or port), and added stuff like flashlight and fire extinguisher, to prevent resonance in there.
BTW, you need to add the year of your car to your sig. I'm assuming it is 2001 or earlier?
I haven't tinkered so I don't know first hand. But the best way is to find the pre-outs on the head unit, and add an amp and sub to that. The signal sent to the Bose sub is equalized for their sub only, not good with another sub.
I haven't found a particular sub that I'd want to use on the A6. I put a single JL Audio 10 or 12" sub in my Honda, and it did very well. But placing the box in the trunk requires a lot of experimenting to find the best response (flat and low in distortion, which results from vibration of the trunk panels and seat!). I ended up putting speaker grilles in the rear deck that were empty through-holes into the trunk. The woofer sat right below them on the floor and aimed up at the grilles. I braced it against the seat to stay put.
There are tons of woofers, from band-pass types (I don't like the sound usually) to sealed or ported boxes sitting in the trunk to woofers slapped under the shelf and firing directly into the passenger compartment. My preference would be to develop a box that bolts up under the deck and fires directly through it. I would mount it with wing nuts so I could remove it for extra trunk space when needed.
I would recommend an adjustable crossover so you can try to make it blend with the main stereo. In my Honda, I used a Phoenix gold crossover with adjustable crossover frequency and level for both high-pass (you wouldn't use this if you stick to the stock stereo) and low pass (for the woofer amp).
My goal is to replace all speakers and amps, and use the stock head unit but turn off all the Bose equalization (see links in the attached linked message). This might run about $5k... why I haven't done it. I'd rather spend that on the home stereo, it seems.
Just to reiterate, don't attach a new sub amp to the old sub wires. It is equalized, so you can't get a flat or deep response out of it. Plus, you don't want to use one of those adapters from speaker level to line level, anyway. Tie into the preamp/line outs from the head unit. That part I haven't done, but I've bookmarked messages about how in the FAQ.<ul><li><a href="https://forums.audiworld.com/s4/msgs/851471.phtml">A message of mine about EQ, with various links at the bottom</a></li></ul>
11-07-2003, 10:57 AM
#14
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Doesn't help CL to reprogram to non-Bose. Keeping main speakers. Also, I don't know...
... if the pre-outs from the head unit are Bose equalized as are the amplifier outs, or if they are flat despite the amp outs being equalized when programmed for Bose. Do you know any of these details that I don't?
11-07-2003, 11:02 AM
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Something doesn't make sense....
You say "Run the line level out through a line-level converter (available at almost any best buy radio shack, etc) and into your sub amp."
Well, you don't need a "converter" to convert line level to line level. Some people use a converter to reduce amp output level to line level, but this is a low-fi lazy way to go about it.
One might use an adapter to go from line level connections on the head unit to RCA line level connectors. But I doubt this is available at Radio Shack, or am I wrong?
I'll check the tech article you mention to see what they did....
Well, you don't need a "converter" to convert line level to line level. Some people use a converter to reduce amp output level to line level, but this is a low-fi lazy way to go about it.
One might use an adapter to go from line level connections on the head unit to RCA line level connectors. But I doubt this is available at Radio Shack, or am I wrong?
I'll check the tech article you mention to see what they did....
11-07-2003, 11:13 AM
#16
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No, he doesn't want to reprogram to NON-Bose.
If he does he will hear music from the B pillar phone speaker that comes standard on all Bose equipped Symphony cars.
The head unit, regardless of Bose, allows use of the hidden EQ settings. The head unit is identical whether the car has Bose or not. Bose equalization is done within the Bose amp which only works with the Bose speakers. A Symphony head unit is a symphony head unit. Unfortunately, it seems a newer head unit cannot replace an older one from what I've read b/c the system BUS will not be able to program it properly. That may not be true, but it's what I remember reading. I would very much like to replace the head unit with a new one with indash 6 disc changer, sat radio, and a phatnoise system in the trunk. Doesn't sound like my older car would 'get it' though. I do look forward to someone else trying it though. :-)
Anyway, you can still tap the Bose amp for all the relavent signals to add a sub/amp combo in the trunk, but if you want to go a step further and replace the rest of the Bose speakers you must also replace the Bose Amp and run all new wiring.
Just adding an amp and sub, though, IS compatible with the rest of the Bose system.
In my car I even left the Bose sub connected after having stuffed the port with a big sponge.
At this point, the sound is good enough that I'm not tempted to wire up my a/d/s amp, crossover and speakers, though they are very nice.
That's as much as I know.
The head unit, regardless of Bose, allows use of the hidden EQ settings. The head unit is identical whether the car has Bose or not. Bose equalization is done within the Bose amp which only works with the Bose speakers. A Symphony head unit is a symphony head unit. Unfortunately, it seems a newer head unit cannot replace an older one from what I've read b/c the system BUS will not be able to program it properly. That may not be true, but it's what I remember reading. I would very much like to replace the head unit with a new one with indash 6 disc changer, sat radio, and a phatnoise system in the trunk. Doesn't sound like my older car would 'get it' though. I do look forward to someone else trying it though. :-)
Anyway, you can still tap the Bose amp for all the relavent signals to add a sub/amp combo in the trunk, but if you want to go a step further and replace the rest of the Bose speakers you must also replace the Bose Amp and run all new wiring.
Just adding an amp and sub, though, IS compatible with the rest of the Bose system.
In my car I even left the Bose sub connected after having stuffed the port with a big sponge.
At this point, the sound is good enough that I'm not tempted to wire up my a/d/s amp, crossover and speakers, though they are very nice.
That's as much as I know.
11-07-2003, 11:23 AM
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My Rockford sub amp has RCA connectors.
My signal flow goes like this:
Head unit out to Bose amp.
Bose amp out to Bose sub.
. . . . . . . |
. . . . . . . \-->Line level converter to Rockford sub, then out to my sub box.
I am taking my feed between the Bose amp and Bose sub b/c I wanted to take whatever value Bose used for it's sub, presuming that signal is capped at some Hz to prevent the sub speaker from trying ot produce the full dynamic range.
Low-fi, but with a sub it doesn't matter anywhere near as much as with higher frequency signals, and this way I don't have to monkey with the Xover value between the Bose speakers and sub - it's already done for me.
In a sedan the Xover value would be less important, but in my avant I hear everything the sub is doing, another reason I have a non-ported sub (though I hate porting anyway - I bought this setup for my 90q20v 10 years ago, still works like new).
Does that all make sense now?
Head unit out to Bose amp.
Bose amp out to Bose sub.
. . . . . . . |
. . . . . . . \-->Line level converter to Rockford sub, then out to my sub box.
I am taking my feed between the Bose amp and Bose sub b/c I wanted to take whatever value Bose used for it's sub, presuming that signal is capped at some Hz to prevent the sub speaker from trying ot produce the full dynamic range.
Low-fi, but with a sub it doesn't matter anywhere near as much as with higher frequency signals, and this way I don't have to monkey with the Xover value between the Bose speakers and sub - it's already done for me.
In a sedan the Xover value would be less important, but in my avant I hear everything the sub is doing, another reason I have a non-ported sub (though I hate porting anyway - I bought this setup for my 90q20v 10 years ago, still works like new).
Does that all make sense now?
11-07-2003, 12:20 PM
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In your situation, I would do things quite differently....
First, I am told that the head unit is what does the Bose equalization, not the amps. So, if you switch from Bose speakers and amps to aftermarket ones, you have to reprogram the head unit to non-Bose (I have a link how in the FAQ).
Also, most ADS products are likely much better than the Bose ones. Installation may be a hassle, but aside from that, I'd very much want to switch.
And, for the woofer, I'd want to tap line outs from the head unit. Again, installation is a hassle, requiring getting the tools to remove it from the dash.
Also, most ADS products are likely much better than the Bose ones. Installation may be a hassle, but aside from that, I'd very much want to switch.
And, for the woofer, I'd want to tap line outs from the head unit. Again, installation is a hassle, requiring getting the tools to remove it from the dash.
11-07-2003, 12:50 PM
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The Symphony and Bose systems share the identical head unit.
The car has to be told via the VAG tool that it is a Bose.
My Head unit was recently replaced and they didn't code it as a Bose when they installed it. THe result was the stereo played through the B pillar speaker, as the non-Bose cars are set up to play the phone through the door speaker and have no B pillar speaker.
Once they coded it properly, that situation was remedied. Also, once it was recoded with the VAG as a Bose unit, the Symphony head unit once again displayed "BOSE" on startup.
Whether coding it as "BOSE" results in differenct equalization as well, out of control of the 'hidden eq', I do not know. I was present when they recoded and I can't say the sound was substantially different, although it might be subtly different.
As for my install, it was a lazy work around that, if you're not going to go all the way and replace ALL the speakers and the amp, works sufficiently well.
I was concurrently wiring my V1 with remote display, installing the motorola hands free kit and wiring up the subwoofer. As a weekend projuect I didn't have time to do more than that.
To remove all the door components and install all new speakers, run quality wire, chase alternator noise issues, get new hi-fi shielded RCA's to run to the trunk from the head unit, plumb wiring through the firewall to the battery, custom fabricate speaker mounts as necessary for the doors, find ways to hide all the equipment, and on and on, is a BIG project.
I just wanted to ad a subwoofer, and I may stop at that. If it were an S6 and I were going to keep it a long time I would bother, but this car won't be around forever, and for a weekend project, the aforementioned V1 and phone were enough, in conjunction with the sub, for me.
Having gutted my 91 200q and installed all this equipment, I know how long it takes to do it right, and that's just more time than I'm interested in bothering with. And in the end, I'm not going to replace the head unit, so I'm not even real sure how much better it would sound. In the past I used a high end unamplified (RCA out only) head unit in conjunction with that equipment and I doubt, even after all the work, I would be really impressed.
Have you replaced the equipment in your car? Have you heard a nice aftermarket amp and speaker setup in conjunction with the OE head unit? How much better did it sound? Were the highs well defined? Were voices clear?
I'm just afraid the OE head unit is too weak a performer to justify the time and expense of great speakers and amps. Replacing with a nice DVD sat radio and nav system would be nice, but I'm just not nuts enough anymore to go through all that.
Now if this were an RS6, I might consider it, but this car will probably be replaced in a year or so with an S6 or allroad, so I'm pretty happy with it as it is. And the quality really isn't all that bad. It's far better than earlier Bose attempts at infidelity.
My Head unit was recently replaced and they didn't code it as a Bose when they installed it. THe result was the stereo played through the B pillar speaker, as the non-Bose cars are set up to play the phone through the door speaker and have no B pillar speaker.
Once they coded it properly, that situation was remedied. Also, once it was recoded with the VAG as a Bose unit, the Symphony head unit once again displayed "BOSE" on startup.
Whether coding it as "BOSE" results in differenct equalization as well, out of control of the 'hidden eq', I do not know. I was present when they recoded and I can't say the sound was substantially different, although it might be subtly different.
As for my install, it was a lazy work around that, if you're not going to go all the way and replace ALL the speakers and the amp, works sufficiently well.
I was concurrently wiring my V1 with remote display, installing the motorola hands free kit and wiring up the subwoofer. As a weekend projuect I didn't have time to do more than that.
To remove all the door components and install all new speakers, run quality wire, chase alternator noise issues, get new hi-fi shielded RCA's to run to the trunk from the head unit, plumb wiring through the firewall to the battery, custom fabricate speaker mounts as necessary for the doors, find ways to hide all the equipment, and on and on, is a BIG project.
I just wanted to ad a subwoofer, and I may stop at that. If it were an S6 and I were going to keep it a long time I would bother, but this car won't be around forever, and for a weekend project, the aforementioned V1 and phone were enough, in conjunction with the sub, for me.
Having gutted my 91 200q and installed all this equipment, I know how long it takes to do it right, and that's just more time than I'm interested in bothering with. And in the end, I'm not going to replace the head unit, so I'm not even real sure how much better it would sound. In the past I used a high end unamplified (RCA out only) head unit in conjunction with that equipment and I doubt, even after all the work, I would be really impressed.
Have you replaced the equipment in your car? Have you heard a nice aftermarket amp and speaker setup in conjunction with the OE head unit? How much better did it sound? Were the highs well defined? Were voices clear?
I'm just afraid the OE head unit is too weak a performer to justify the time and expense of great speakers and amps. Replacing with a nice DVD sat radio and nav system would be nice, but I'm just not nuts enough anymore to go through all that.
Now if this were an RS6, I might consider it, but this car will probably be replaced in a year or so with an S6 or allroad, so I'm pretty happy with it as it is. And the quality really isn't all that bad. It's far better than earlier Bose attempts at infidelity.