Bollinger

A V8 is two 4-cylinder engines joined at the crankshaft. The W8 takes two 2-cylinder engines, joins them in a 15-degree V, then takes another assembly like that and joins it in 75 degrees away. As such it is only about as long as a two-cylinder engine, not a 4.

l5gcw0b

The W8 is balance shafted (2 I beleive) for smoothness.

lipper

Some great points here. The Passat W8 represents the a great value as you all know.
But as April/verdegrrl put it, it's marketed to a different crowd. This is smart no? I think it's genius.

I think the W8 will be a great car and should be well appointed as well.
I own a Passat. A couple things will get me into the Audi next time around, but the W8 is tempting. Now if only it had the weather stripping, insulation, steering weight, and brakes of the S4, it would be perfect

Bollinger

There's non-bounciness, which you can adjust with balance shafts. Then there's evenness of firing order. A 90-degree V8 has the best evenness of firing order. This can only be adjusted to a limited extent in the W8 I think since some cylinders share journals I think.

I'm not saying the W8 is a piece of crap, I'm just saying you can't compare it directly to a V8. Same deal with the W12. The W12 will almost certainly not have the near perfect balance and smoothness of a V12.

jmatero1

Some of you are missing the point....

The pricing info is not accurate... the pricing according to VW is going to be approx. $35,000.

This is NOT just an "engine upgrade"... you're getting the W8 300hp+ engine, 6-speed manual or tiptronic, quattro, lowered sport suspension, 17" wheels/tires, alcantara interior, bi-xenons and from all accounts the VW warranty next year for the 2002 models is being updated to 4/50,000 from 2/24-10/100 just like audi's.

True, the interior is not as luxurious as the Audi's, BUT... I'd choose it over an S4 AND S6 for the simple fact that 1.It's a LOT cheaper and 2. with the exception of the wheels and quad-exhausts, it can pass for a family sedan (no cops just WAITING to pull you over... try that in a yellow S4).

I'm not trying to pick on the Audis, but according to VW, Audi is designed to compete with BMW and VW will compete with Mercedes over time. If I can get a V8 quattro passat variant with a six-speed and 4/50 warranty for $35,000-ish....... I wouldn't even LOOK at the current S4/S4 Avant. Again, I know the Passat is sort of plain-jane inside, but you should go sit in one... the ergonomics are quite good... and with the "mouse-fur" seats and a navigation system, it WILL take sales from audi. After all, why buy a V6 A4 if a W8 passat is the same price or less?

Augie

My understanding (not the same as actual fact) is that the VR6 has an even (every 120 degrees) firing order, because they split the crank journals, a la Mercedes on their three-valve, 90 degree V6s, or Buick's 90 degree 3.8 liter V6.

Is this not so?

Assuming that it *is* so, that still doesn't guarantee that the W8 has an even firing order, but do you know factually that it doesn't?

By the way, the V12 doesn't have a "near perfect" balance. It's actually perfect, as is a straight six. 90 degree V8s (with 90 degree crankshafts) have a second order (or maybe it's a fourth order, I forget) harmonic, but it's not a big deal, and many even prefer it to the turbine-like smoothness of a V12. 90 degree V8s with 180 degree "flat" crankshafts behave like a pair of straight fours, with associated, significant, second-order harmonics. However, since these only exist nowadays in cars that have the prancing horse on the hood with the "3" designation, which at full throttle sound like a pair of Honda VTECS on a serious caffeine jag, mating, we can all forgive a little vibration in exchange for our hair standing up everytime we're in the vicinity of one at full chat.

DWC_2.7T

My wife's '99 Jetta has a 10yr/100K engine/drivetrain warranty from the factory.

Bollinger

Check my post again (below). I didn't say that the W8 wasn't smooth or balanced, just that you can't apply automatically assume it has the characteristics of a V8 because it isn't a V8.

So, please don't be accusatory towards me and say that I am asserting as fact that I know it doesn't have an even firing order. I don't know for certain.

This engine doesn't have any VR6s in it. It has two VR4s. Also, the two VR4s are 72 degrees apart. Note the 72 degrees, which points out again that the W engines are really nothing terribly new, it is merely 40% (two of five banks) of an old radial airplane engine.

Anyway, assume the two VR4s have split journals, but the banks share journals. It is exceedingly likely given the length of the engine that it has only 4 journals, not 8. Even full-size V8s usually only have 4 journals, which is why the 90 degree V is essential. If the two banks share journals then you have a forced 72 degree element in the firing order, and it is my opinion that you cannot work out a completely even firing order.

Of course, our 2.7Ts and 2.8s have a lousy firing order also I'm told, so it's not like it can't be overcome.<ul><li><a href="https://forums.audiworld.com/a6/msgs/51900.phtml">https://forums.audiworld.com/a6/msgs/51900.phtml</a</li></ul>

Augie

>""Check my post again (below). I didn't say that the W8 wasn't smooth or balanced, just that you can't apply automatically assume it has the characteristics of a V8 because it isn't a V8.""

I certainly agree. I was referring to the "two kinds of smoothness" post.

>""So, please don't be accusatory towards me and say that I am asserting as fact that I know it doesn't have an even firing order. I don't know for certain.""

If it came across as accusatory, I apologize. Not intended to be confrontive. On the other hand, mellow out. :-) I don't have any idea whether it's even-fire or not.

>""This engine doesn't have any VR6s in it. It has two VR4s.""

Right, but my understanding is that the VR4 layout is identical to the VR6, and in fact sort of *is* a VR6 with two cylinders cut off, with the same 15 degree angle.

>""Also, the two VR4s are 72 degrees apart. Note the 72 degrees, which points out again that the W engines are really nothing terribly new, it is merely 40% (two of five banks) of an old radial airplane engine. Anyway, assume the two VR4s have split journals, but the banks share journals. It is exceedingly likely given the length of the engine that it has only 4 journals, not 8. Even full-size V8s usually only have 4 journals, which is why the 90 degree V is essential.""

Agree on the four journals. Disagree on the 90 degrees being essential on a V8. Journal count isn't the issue. Even-fire is, but you can easily build a 60-degree V8 and split the journals.

>""If the two banks share journals then you have a forced 72 degree element in the firing order, and it is my opinion that you cannot work out a completely even firing order.""

Assuming the V4s share journals, you may be right. It would certainly be an interesting problem.

>""Of course, our 2.7Ts and 2.8s have a lousy firing order also I'm told, so it's not like it can't be overcome.""

I have been told (again, not the same as fact) that the 2.8 and 2.7T are even-fire engines. OH well. Time to hit the books.

Bollinger

Me: Even full-size V8s usually only have 4 journals, which is why the 90 degree V is essential.

You: Agree on the four journals. Disagree on the 90 degrees being essential on a V8. Journal count isn't the issue. Even-fire is, but you can easily build a 60-degree V8 and split the journals.

I think we agree here. I meant the 90-degree angle is essential if you aren't going to split the journals. If you do split them as you said then you can use any angle you want, I think.

Me: Of course, our 2.7Ts and 2.8s have a lousy firing order also I'm told, so it's not like it can't be overcome.

You: I have been told (again, not the same as fact) that the 2.8 and 2.7T are even-fire engines. OH well. Time to hit the books.

I'd appreciate any info you come across. I was told it didn't fire evenly. If it is even fire and it still idles as roughly as it does, then I really pity Audi/VW.