Where to start with 2001 A6 2.7T brake replacement
05-01-2013, 08:15 PM
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Where to start with 2001 A6 2.7T brake replacement
My buddy owns a tire shop, and during a rotation today they mentioned in need new front pads, front rotors, and back pads (but not rotors).
First of all, is doing just the pads, but not the rotors, ok to do on my car?
My story is I knew next to nothing about cars, until I got this car in 2006. Since then I've done plenty of jobs myself, the biggest being auxiliary water pump replacement. So I have some aptitude at least! Anyway, I have NEVER done anything with brakes. There's a couple tech articles with good info, but I need something more detailed. I'm hoping for a complete beginners guide, that will give me step-by-step for doing this job. Can someone PLEASE provide a reliable link or two?
Also if there's any pitfalls or tips or anything else I would benefit to know, please don't hesitate to post here!
Thanks in advance Audiworld - you've saved me thousands $$ over the years, here's to a couple hundred more!
First of all, is doing just the pads, but not the rotors, ok to do on my car?
My story is I knew next to nothing about cars, until I got this car in 2006. Since then I've done plenty of jobs myself, the biggest being auxiliary water pump replacement. So I have some aptitude at least! Anyway, I have NEVER done anything with brakes. There's a couple tech articles with good info, but I need something more detailed. I'm hoping for a complete beginners guide, that will give me step-by-step for doing this job. Can someone PLEASE provide a reliable link or two?
Also if there's any pitfalls or tips or anything else I would benefit to know, please don't hesitate to post here!
Thanks in advance Audiworld - you've saved me thousands $$ over the years, here's to a couple hundred more!
05-02-2013, 03:06 AM
#2
AudiWorld Member
I have a "couple" of links on here...
Http://www.VAGLinks.com
Hopefully the DIY section will save you some more $$$ in the future... ;-)
Cheers
Massboykie
Last edited by massboykie; 05-02-2013 at 03:18 AM.
05-02-2013, 04:44 AM
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Hoo boy. Its a very do-able job. If you google search you will find one or two really good step-by steps from a B5 S4 (same HP-2 brakes)
1. its fine to do pads and not rotors. In fact, i doubt you need rotors up front
2. Pads are vastly easier, for reasons below
3. Make sure the floating caliper floats. This means slides on the guide pins. I wrote a tech article on this (used a C4, but same idea)
4. The HP-2 calipers are held on by two large bolts from the BACK of the hub. They are torqued to 140 lb-ft. Between that spec and the poor access (behind, they are a bear). You can get them fairly easily with a lift and a breaker bar. Else, turn the wheel all the way one way with the car on jack stands and you can just get at it with a breaker bar Forget a normal ratchet.
5. You need a special tool to screw the rear caliper pistons back in, and they can be fairly tough too. I actually broke a tool once doing it (wrench on the handle, sheared the locking pin)
6. Bleed your brakes afterwards
7. Clean everything well with brake cleaner - mostly pistons, boots, etc. brake dust forms cement and is the (well one prominent) cause of stuck pistons.
8. Get the right pad sensor plug type. If you get the wrong one, you can cut it off, wire tie the wire ends,and the light will be out (permanently)
Grant
1. its fine to do pads and not rotors. In fact, i doubt you need rotors up front
2. Pads are vastly easier, for reasons below
3. Make sure the floating caliper floats. This means slides on the guide pins. I wrote a tech article on this (used a C4, but same idea)
4. The HP-2 calipers are held on by two large bolts from the BACK of the hub. They are torqued to 140 lb-ft. Between that spec and the poor access (behind, they are a bear). You can get them fairly easily with a lift and a breaker bar. Else, turn the wheel all the way one way with the car on jack stands and you can just get at it with a breaker bar Forget a normal ratchet.
5. You need a special tool to screw the rear caliper pistons back in, and they can be fairly tough too. I actually broke a tool once doing it (wrench on the handle, sheared the locking pin)
6. Bleed your brakes afterwards
7. Clean everything well with brake cleaner - mostly pistons, boots, etc. brake dust forms cement and is the (well one prominent) cause of stuck pistons.
8. Get the right pad sensor plug type. If you get the wrong one, you can cut it off, wire tie the wire ends,and the light will be out (permanently)
Grant
05-02-2013, 08:49 PM
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Thanks. I've done A LOT of reading of past posts on the subject. Anyway, a more few questions... sorry if some are very obvious or downright stupid, I just want to be sure what I'm thinking after reading is correct.
1. I've decided I'm not touching the rotors (pads and rotors were replaced in 2009 by the dealership). To make it easier this first time around, is it ok to just do the front pads now? I'd do the back pads in the near future.
2. When you say "bleed your brakes afterwards" I take that to mean the procedure that fully replaces old brake fluid with new. Correct? (BTW I'm scared sh*tless of this... I've read about it a lot and feel I'll screw it up badly.)
3. Assuming I'm correct on #2, can/should I still bleed the brakes if I only do the front pads?
4. If I don't fully bleed the system, will I soon die in a huge crash due to failed brakes? Can I merely top off as mentioned in Bentley HP-2 pad replacement section?
5. Did the dealership fully bleed the system when they did pads and rotors for me back in 2009? There is nothing on the invoice that indicates this, no line item for new fluid or labor involved.
6. Are you sure I have the HP-2 calipers? Bentley refers to these as "allroad (HP-2)". Does allroad just refer to quattro in this context?
7. If I'm only doing pads, I do not have to remove the calipers and their notoriously difficult bolts, correct?
8. Will I be able to tell if I have square or round sensor plugs just by removing a wheel? Which ones do you think I have, or is it a total crapshoot? My old invoice from the dealer only shows the part number (4B0-698-151-S) which could mean either.
9. What am I missing here? Any other questions I should be asking?
10. Given all I've said so far, do you think I should attempt to change the front pads myself?
1. I've decided I'm not touching the rotors (pads and rotors were replaced in 2009 by the dealership). To make it easier this first time around, is it ok to just do the front pads now? I'd do the back pads in the near future.
2. When you say "bleed your brakes afterwards" I take that to mean the procedure that fully replaces old brake fluid with new. Correct? (BTW I'm scared sh*tless of this... I've read about it a lot and feel I'll screw it up badly.)
3. Assuming I'm correct on #2, can/should I still bleed the brakes if I only do the front pads?
4. If I don't fully bleed the system, will I soon die in a huge crash due to failed brakes? Can I merely top off as mentioned in Bentley HP-2 pad replacement section?
5. Did the dealership fully bleed the system when they did pads and rotors for me back in 2009? There is nothing on the invoice that indicates this, no line item for new fluid or labor involved.
6. Are you sure I have the HP-2 calipers? Bentley refers to these as "allroad (HP-2)". Does allroad just refer to quattro in this context?
7. If I'm only doing pads, I do not have to remove the calipers and their notoriously difficult bolts, correct?
8. Will I be able to tell if I have square or round sensor plugs just by removing a wheel? Which ones do you think I have, or is it a total crapshoot? My old invoice from the dealer only shows the part number (4B0-698-151-S) which could mean either.
9. What am I missing here? Any other questions I should be asking?
10. Given all I've said so far, do you think I should attempt to change the front pads myself?
Hoo boy. Its a very do-able job. If you google search you will find one or two really good step-by steps from a B5 S4 (same HP-2 brakes)
1. its fine to do pads and not rotors. In fact, i doubt you need rotors up front
2. Pads are vastly easier, for reasons below
3. Make sure the floating caliper floats. This means slides on the guide pins. I wrote a tech article on this (used a C4, but same idea)
4. The HP-2 calipers are held on by two large bolts from the BACK of the hub. They are torqued to 140 lb-ft. Between that spec and the poor access (behind, they are a bear). You can get them fairly easily with a lift and a breaker bar. Else, turn the wheel all the way one way with the car on jack stands and you can just get at it with a breaker bar Forget a normal ratchet.
5. You need a special tool to screw the rear caliper pistons back in, and they can be fairly tough too. I actually broke a tool once doing it (wrench on the handle, sheared the locking pin)
6. Bleed your brakes afterwards
7. Clean everything well with brake cleaner - mostly pistons, boots, etc. brake dust forms cement and is the (well one prominent) cause of stuck pistons.
8. Get the right pad sensor plug type. If you get the wrong one, you can cut it off, wire tie the wire ends,and the light will be out (permanently)
Grant
1. its fine to do pads and not rotors. In fact, i doubt you need rotors up front
2. Pads are vastly easier, for reasons below
3. Make sure the floating caliper floats. This means slides on the guide pins. I wrote a tech article on this (used a C4, but same idea)
4. The HP-2 calipers are held on by two large bolts from the BACK of the hub. They are torqued to 140 lb-ft. Between that spec and the poor access (behind, they are a bear). You can get them fairly easily with a lift and a breaker bar. Else, turn the wheel all the way one way with the car on jack stands and you can just get at it with a breaker bar Forget a normal ratchet.
5. You need a special tool to screw the rear caliper pistons back in, and they can be fairly tough too. I actually broke a tool once doing it (wrench on the handle, sheared the locking pin)
6. Bleed your brakes afterwards
7. Clean everything well with brake cleaner - mostly pistons, boots, etc. brake dust forms cement and is the (well one prominent) cause of stuck pistons.
8. Get the right pad sensor plug type. If you get the wrong one, you can cut it off, wire tie the wire ends,and the light will be out (permanently)
Grant
05-02-2013, 09:50 PM
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ya pads are very easy with the HP-2 style.
all you need to do is get a pair of pliers and lift the spring then replace the pads.
one more thing you need to make sure you do on the front and back is grease the glide pins with some high temperature grease.
all you need to do is get a pair of pliers and lift the spring then replace the pads.
one more thing you need to make sure you do on the front and back is grease the glide pins with some high temperature grease.
05-03-2013, 03:05 AM
#6
Do I have the time, skills and tools to do this?
No.
05-03-2013, 04:19 AM
#7
Hew, I think you are making this into a more complex job than it really is. If you've removed an Aux. pump, this is going to be easy. Brake jobs are TYPICALLY broken down like this on disc brakes:
1. Remove two caliper bolts
2. Slightly compress piston to remove caliper.
3. Compress caliper piston fully.
4. Remove two caliper bracket bolts.
5. Replace rotor
6. Replace caliper bracket and two bolts.
7. Grease sliding pins.
8. Replace pads.
9. Replace replace caliper.
10. Replace two caliper bolts.
In other words, you remove 4 bolts. The HP2 setups are a bit different than this, but not drastically - you use a prybar/screwdriver to compress the piston against the old pads by pulling the caliper forward, you use some pliers to pinch a spring clip and swing it open, the pads fall out. Sometimes the caliper is well enough that it will slide and the rotor can be removed without any bolt removal also. Other times you have to remove the two caliper bracket bolts in the back with a breaker bar.
The concepts are simple, and you will figure it out once you get the wheels off - but the parts can be stubborn and cause issues.
The BIGGEST thing to look for on the HP2 in my opinion is to make sure the caliper slides back and forth easily on the slider pins. I have had these seize and had to replace the calipers - but it has only happened once on an 11 year old car.
The back brakes pretty much follow the original instructions I gave above.
Bleeding the brakes is easy if you have 2 people. Find the appropriate wrench (a line wrench is my preference) and the bleeder screws on each wheel. Fill the resevoir with fluid. Have someone compress the brake pedal, then open the bleeder screw and let the fluid out, then close the bleeder screw, then they let off the pedal. Repeat until you have clear fluid with no bubbles. Top off the resevoir in between each wheel as necessary. Start with the passenger side rear, driver's rear, passenger front, then driver's front. It is much easier than it sounds.
Brakes were my second job on any car after an oil change, so you have much more knowledge than I do at this point....I wouldn't worry so much.
1. Remove two caliper bolts
2. Slightly compress piston to remove caliper.
3. Compress caliper piston fully.
4. Remove two caliper bracket bolts.
5. Replace rotor
6. Replace caliper bracket and two bolts.
7. Grease sliding pins.
8. Replace pads.
9. Replace replace caliper.
10. Replace two caliper bolts.
In other words, you remove 4 bolts. The HP2 setups are a bit different than this, but not drastically - you use a prybar/screwdriver to compress the piston against the old pads by pulling the caliper forward, you use some pliers to pinch a spring clip and swing it open, the pads fall out. Sometimes the caliper is well enough that it will slide and the rotor can be removed without any bolt removal also. Other times you have to remove the two caliper bracket bolts in the back with a breaker bar.
The concepts are simple, and you will figure it out once you get the wheels off - but the parts can be stubborn and cause issues.
The BIGGEST thing to look for on the HP2 in my opinion is to make sure the caliper slides back and forth easily on the slider pins. I have had these seize and had to replace the calipers - but it has only happened once on an 11 year old car.
The back brakes pretty much follow the original instructions I gave above.
Bleeding the brakes is easy if you have 2 people. Find the appropriate wrench (a line wrench is my preference) and the bleeder screws on each wheel. Fill the resevoir with fluid. Have someone compress the brake pedal, then open the bleeder screw and let the fluid out, then close the bleeder screw, then they let off the pedal. Repeat until you have clear fluid with no bubbles. Top off the resevoir in between each wheel as necessary. Start with the passenger side rear, driver's rear, passenger front, then driver's front. It is much easier than it sounds.
Brakes were my second job on any car after an oil change, so you have much more knowledge than I do at this point....I wouldn't worry so much.
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05-03-2013, 06:17 AM
#8
AudiWorld Super User
This is a mistake. Do pads and rotors all around if you are DIY'ing.
I'd bleed as much of the old fluid out as possible. It's due.
Yes. But don't do just the fronts.
No. You will die of a heart attack from overstressing about simple repairs. ;-)
No. They probably didn't. And even if they did, that was four years ago.
No idea without a VIN number and an assurance they weren't modded.
Yes. But the part number should get you what you need.
Do I have the time, skills and tools to do this?
No.
I'd bleed as much of the old fluid out as possible. It's due.
Yes. But don't do just the fronts.
No. You will die of a heart attack from overstressing about simple repairs. ;-)
No. They probably didn't. And even if they did, that was four years ago.
No idea without a VIN number and an assurance they weren't modded.
Yes. But the part number should get you what you need.
Do I have the time, skills and tools to do this?
No.
05-03-2013, 06:19 AM
#9
AudiWorld Super User
Hew, I think you are making this into a more complex job than it really is. If you've removed an Aux. pump, this is going to be easy. Brake jobs are TYPICALLY broken down like this on disc brakes:
1. Remove two caliper bolts
2. Slightly compress piston to remove caliper.
3. Compress caliper piston fully.
4. Remove two caliper bracket bolts.
5. Replace rotor
6. Replace caliper bracket and two bolts.
7. Grease sliding pins.
8. Replace pads.
9. Replace replace caliper.
10. Replace two caliper bolts.
In other words, you remove 4 bolts. The HP2 setups are a bit different than this, but not drastically - you use a prybar/screwdriver to compress the piston against the old pads by pulling the caliper forward, you use some pliers to pinch a spring clip and swing it open, the pads fall out. Sometimes the caliper is well enough that it will slide and the rotor can be removed without any bolt removal also. Other times you have to remove the two caliper bracket bolts in the back with a breaker bar.
The concepts are simple, and you will figure it out once you get the wheels off - but the parts can be stubborn and cause issues.
The BIGGEST thing to look for on the HP2 in my opinion is to make sure the caliper slides back and forth easily on the slider pins. I have had these seize and had to replace the calipers - but it has only happened once on an 11 year old car.
The back brakes pretty much follow the original instructions I gave above.
Bleeding the brakes is easy if you have 2 people. Find the appropriate wrench (a line wrench is my preference) and the bleeder screws on each wheel. Fill the resevoir with fluid. Have someone compress the brake pedal, then open the bleeder screw and let the fluid out, then close the bleeder screw, then they let off the pedal. Repeat until you have clear fluid with no bubbles. Top off the resevoir in between each wheel as necessary. Start with the passenger side rear, driver's rear, passenger front, then driver's front. It is much easier than it sounds.
Brakes were my second job on any car after an oil change, so you have much more knowledge than I do at this point....I wouldn't worry so much.
1. Remove two caliper bolts
2. Slightly compress piston to remove caliper.
3. Compress caliper piston fully.
4. Remove two caliper bracket bolts.
5. Replace rotor
6. Replace caliper bracket and two bolts.
7. Grease sliding pins.
8. Replace pads.
9. Replace replace caliper.
10. Replace two caliper bolts.
In other words, you remove 4 bolts. The HP2 setups are a bit different than this, but not drastically - you use a prybar/screwdriver to compress the piston against the old pads by pulling the caliper forward, you use some pliers to pinch a spring clip and swing it open, the pads fall out. Sometimes the caliper is well enough that it will slide and the rotor can be removed without any bolt removal also. Other times you have to remove the two caliper bracket bolts in the back with a breaker bar.
The concepts are simple, and you will figure it out once you get the wheels off - but the parts can be stubborn and cause issues.
The BIGGEST thing to look for on the HP2 in my opinion is to make sure the caliper slides back and forth easily on the slider pins. I have had these seize and had to replace the calipers - but it has only happened once on an 11 year old car.
The back brakes pretty much follow the original instructions I gave above.
Bleeding the brakes is easy if you have 2 people. Find the appropriate wrench (a line wrench is my preference) and the bleeder screws on each wheel. Fill the resevoir with fluid. Have someone compress the brake pedal, then open the bleeder screw and let the fluid out, then close the bleeder screw, then they let off the pedal. Repeat until you have clear fluid with no bubbles. Top off the resevoir in between each wheel as necessary. Start with the passenger side rear, driver's rear, passenger front, then driver's front. It is much easier than it sounds.
Brakes were my second job on any car after an oil change, so you have much more knowledge than I do at this point....I wouldn't worry so much.
ONly one comment...the back brakes require a special tool (of varying sophistication all the way up to a pneumatic tool that I have...makes life SOOO much easier!) to rotate the piston while you compress it. Do NOT use a C-clamp....