nitrorocket

OK, so I have this A6 that I guess you could call a stage 3+ or 4 or something. I am looking for ideas to try to squeeze more power from it.
I am very dissapointed in the power... It should be a very stout setup but yet the performance is far less then stellar. I have very little in the A6 world to compare to though. The best time is a FATS of 4.1 and that seems really slow.
It's sitting at about 21.5 psi of boost with about 19-20 degrees of timing under full boost with no timing retard at about 11 AFR on 93 octane. Its only consuming about 375 G/S of air at peak. Thats not much... maybe I should be shooting for 25 psi or more/less timing? Any big power guys find the sweet spot on timing and boost with a similar setup? I guess I will try to raise the boost and adjust timing proportionatly and see what happens...

What kind of boost and timing/boost are the other stage 3+ guys running? I need something to compare to before I waste the time getting to a dyno. I would like to look at any relevant advise before hand

These are the main parts on the car:

2001 A6 2.7T
-Frankenturbo's (Basically RS6 hybrids that flow more air then K04's)
-Billet BOV's
-AWE intercoolers
-AFE cold air induction
-RS4 piping
-APR Bipipe
-Bosch 044 fuel pump
-Bosch 52lb EV14 injectors
-STOCK 4bar FPR
-Hitachi 85mm MAF
-No cats, 3" downpipes, and full MTM 2.5" open exhaust(No mufflers)
-Aluminum flywheel

Im gonna start a post asking suggestions...

2.7Lturbo

dare i say, but could the maf be going out? are you using the stock maf housing? the tune you use should have a specific size maf housing in mind. that may be your biggest choke point on the system. as far as the hybrid turbos, ill try to take a look but at that psi you should be putting down north of 450-550 hp at LEAST. also any reason for not going with the bolt on garret BB turbos?

2.7Lturbo

also on the stock rs6 turbo, you are running into a wall at about 550 hp, granted i cant compensate for timing power gains, but purely on engine size, fueling, cfm and VE, the turbo is pushing max around 23. i think alot of this is going to come down to the tune.

nitrorocket

As far as the turbos, let's just say I could not refuse them...

The MAF is an 034 85mm housing with a factory Hitachi MAF sensor. I scaled the airflow using a conversion table from Eurodyne so it should be accurate. But regardless of what the MAF scaling is, the fact I have so much timing versus boost should have power dialed in pretty close I think. Unless I am grossly understimating the timing and boost others are running.

The airflow is consistant and the car runs perfect. Dont get me wrong, the car is pretty powerful, but according to the FATS I ran it is not. I was actually suprised.

Maybe thats just the max for these turbos but given they are suppoesed to flow more then K04's, the car should make more power.

It would help if I had an idea of what the other K04 guys were running for boost/fuel/timing for a baseline... I realize a A6 is a fat pig compared to an S4, but Iam about 1 second off the "fast" pace for a similar setup I think.

Even if these turbos only flow what an RS6 does, the car can not be putting making 550hp with that FATS time.

The tune seems good unless I am missing something obvious...

2.7Lturbo

unfortunately the RS6 is a v8, and though the turbos can flow more then a k04, eventually you hit a wall, for comparison the GT25r is capbable of up to 550 hp (claims a step up from ko4s) and the GT2560r is capable of 600hp on the 2.7 (they claim a step up from the rs6 turbos) what HP are you putting down? the A6 truely is a fat pig, id build the setup, find a nice s4 with a blown engine/turbos (tons out there) and do a swap lol

2.7Lturbo

4.1 fats is a tad slow, you should be in the <= 3.6 zone

nitrorocket

What do you mean do the swap? This car is running right now with the combo listed... Runs great, just down on peak power. Pulls like crazy in 3rd to about 5000 rpm where it seems to plataeu. The G/S goes from 250 to 350 from 4200-5500rpm with 21psi. Then continues from 350 at 5500 rpm to 370 at 6500 and holds roughly 370ish until I let off at 7000 at 22psi on one of my logs. Appears that the top end flow is not much and the car should be taking in much more air with increased rpm, but it's not. So either the motor wont take more air or the turbos wont puch any more.I wonder if this is normal compared to others logs??

These are a new design turbine I guess and are supposed to make big power and spool good.

What EGT temps are guys running? Maybe my wideband is off or something. If I run the car any leaner I start to have timing retard due to detonation undetectable to me, but the ECU picks it up.

nitrorocket

That's what Im saying... Hmmm....

2.7Lturbo

you really may be hitting the breathing wall of the engine. any cfm numbers in those logs? but your right you should be getting better airflow. the G/S numbers your posting suggest your putting down around 440-450 hp, (maf readings are roughly 80 percent of HP produced) if the turbos are like you said and redesigned to flow more and spool better you should be hitting 500 hp and 400 G/S on the maf. what is your min rpm for boost onset? what rpm is the turbo at max boost?

nitrorocket

Here is a bunch of current info if it makes any sense. Lol

This is some info from a log before the ECU bricked yesterday.
You can see how the engine climbs prety hard if you look at the rpms and airflow you can see from 6000-7000 rpm airflow only increases 10 G/S. That sucks!

Also, actual engine load versus load specified starts to actually drop from a peak of 215 versus 217% commanded at 5500rpm to only 183% at 6900rpm where I let off. What in the world would cause load to go down when all my tables show it should be going up (Except I have no access to engine protection tables to see what parameters may be pulling power).

So something seems to possibly be actually telling the ECU to reduce engine load even though the pedal is to the floor, there is minimal to no knock, steady increasing boost, and increasing rpm's. Nothing should technically be bleeding off boost behind the scenes somehow to limit power. Correct?? And if so, I need to figure out what...

When the car runs again, I am going make "maximum boost under knock" table match the "specified boost" table and see if this solves this issue.

Unfortunatly Eurodyne only gives me access to about 30 adjustment tables out of 250+ available on the stock ECU. This limits all the "engine protection" maps I would be able to view to try to see what may be reducing engine power if any...

So things so far to try:
-Temporarily remove sinlge cone air filter to see if its a restriction to try to gain top end airflow
-Increase boost from 3600 up to my desired max to increase midrange power
-Temporarily eliminate Maximum boost under knock table to see if this could be a factor somehow. Even though I cam getting very little knock.
-Add a little more top end fuel, also around 3600+ to try to increase spool rate.


-Airflow from 4000-5000rpm is about 236g/s increasing to 301g/s
-Airflow from 5000-6000rpm is about 301g/s increasing to 355g/s
-Airflow from 6000-7000rpm is about 355g/s increasing to 371g/s


-Time from 4000 to 5000rpm is about 1.68 seconds.
-Time from 5000 to 6000rpm is about 1.83 seconds.
-Time from 6000 to 7000rpm is about 2.13 seconds.

-About 4psi at 3300rpm
-About 10psi at 3400rpm
-About 15psi at 3600rpm
-About 19spi at 3900rpm (Looks like I should increase boost rise from 3600 to 3900 rpm)
-About 21psi at 5400rpm(Same as above, I should increase boost rise rate to make 21 psi be active by at least 3900rpm. This would help FATS??)
-About 21.8 psi at 7000rpm where I finally let off.